The word 'olam'

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 11:23; 18:19; 23:15; 33 

 

Not one of those verses refer to any geographical location of Gehenna.

 

I'm trying to bring up the scripture, but you crammed them all together. Some of them don't come up. Can you make it easier to copy and paste.

 

Matt. 5:22, 29, 30

 

Matt. 10:28

 

Matt. 11:23

 

Matt. 18:19

 

Matt. 23:15, 33 

[dscapp]

Matt. 5:22, 29, 30

 

Matt. 10:28

 

Matt. 11:23

 

Matt. 18:19

 

Matt. 23:15, 33 

 

This is not proof at all. You simply took passages that had the word hell in it, and that doesn't really do anything.

 

"Gehenna" is the term used in the Gospels by Jesus, the place where both body and soul of the wicked will be utterly consumed (Matt. 10:28). In referring to Gehenna, Jesus cited Isaiah 66, which shows that the corpses of the wicked will be burned up there (Mark 9:42-48).

"Ge-henna" is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew, literally means "Valley of Hinnom." The is an abbreviated form of the Hebrew, "Valley of the Son of Himmon." It is mentioned several times in the OT. It was the place where the Israelites burned their children alive as human sacrifices to the god, Molech. Jeremiah prophesied that because Israel had defiled this valley by burning their children in the fire, God would fill it with the dead bodies of the Israelites. This was done during Nebuchdnezzar's siege of Jerusalem.

Gehenna was also known as "Tophet," from the Hebrew word to beat a drum, because of the beating of drums when children were being burned alive to drown out their screams. In Nebuchadnezzar's day, when the valley of Hinnom was filled with the corpses of the slain, it was also known as "The Valley of Corpses."

Jeremiah 19 is a prophecy that Jeremiah made from Tophet (Gehenna), and describes Nebuchadnezzar's impending slaughter, and how God was going to fill that valley with unburied corpses. He was also going to rename it "the Valley of Slaughter."

However, in chapter 31, when Jeremiah was prophesying about the New Covenant, and then the Kingdom, he said this:

Jer 31:38-40

38 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever."

Thus, "Gehenna" will eventually be restored, no longer being the place where the corpses are thrown to be "an abhorrence to all flesh," (Isa. 66:22-24), but even this awful place will be "holy to the Lord."

Jesus' constantly threatened "Gehenna" for the wicked. This is NOT some underworld cavern (as in pagan-Greek "Christianity"), but a real place where the corpses of the wicked who have been destroyed in God's wrath were heaped up and burned, both during Nebuchadnezzar's siege of Jerusalem, as well as the Romans in AD70. It is also where the Gentile armies who fight against Israel will be slaughtered (Joel 3:12-16), the "great winepress of the wrath of God" (Joel. 3:12-14; Rev. 14:19-20; Rev. 19:15). The "winepress" metaphor was also used by Jeremiah for Nebuchadnezzar's destruction of Jerusalem (Lam. 1:15). This "Gehenna" will see the corpses of the wicked at Armageddon burned up, and is also the "Lake of Fire" where the resurrected wicked will be burned up after the millennium. This place, according to Jeremiah, will eventually be "Holy to the Lord," and never again will it see carnage. Thus, if we understand "Gehenna" in the Gospels according to its Old Testament history and prophecy, there is absolutely NO QUESTION that "Gehenna" is NOT a place of torture to infinity. That concept is the result of imposing the pagan - Greek concepts onto the term "Gehenna," and ignoring the historical context. Furthermore, the term "Gehenna" is a HEBREW term, not Greek. This term is NEVER used in Greek literature for anything, never mind the pagan-Christian concept of an eternal place of torture. Since the term is exclusively used in the Hebrew Bible, it MUST be interpreted by its Old Testament usage. To do otherwise is to "torture" the Scriptures in general, and Jesus' words in particular.

[dscapp]

The verses I provided refer to Hell and the Greek word is Gehenna, and yet the usage of Gehenna doesn't refer to the geographical location in the valley of Hinnom.

 

Gehenna is a geographical location that will not exist in the new heavens and new earth

 

It does or it doesn't refer to a geographical location?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

The verses I provided refer to Hell and the Greek word is Gehenna, and yet the usage of Gehenna doesn't refer to the geographical location in the valley of Hinnom.

 

Gehenna is a geographical location that will not exist in the new heavens and new earth

 

It does or it doesn't refer to a geographical location?

 

Gehenna is  a geographical location in THIS earth,   but it will not exist in the New Heavens and new earth.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Matt. 5:22, 29, 30

 

Matt. 10:28

 

Matt. 11:23

 

Matt. 18:19

 

Matt. 23:15, 33 

 

This is not proof at all. You simply took passages that had the word hell in it, and that doesn't really do anything.

I am pointing to the way hell (Gehenna) is used in those passages.  They are not referring to the dump in the valley of Hinnom.  The are referring to eternal state of unbelievers.

[dscapp]

 

 

Matt. 5:22, 29, 30

 

Matt. 10:28

 

Matt. 11:23

 

Matt. 18:19

 

Matt. 23:15, 33 

 

This is not proof at all. You simply took passages that had the word hell in it, and that doesn't really do anything.

I am pointing to the way hell (Gehenna) is used in those passages.  They are not referring to the dump in the valley of Hinnom.  The are referring to eternal state of unbelievers.

 

 

But that's precisely my point.

Just because it's not (also) speaking of the location doesn't mean it's not the valley.

Are you expecting every hell scripture to also mention the valley?

What exactly are you getting out of Jer 31...

 

Jer 31:38-40

38 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever."

[OneLight]

  Am I the only one getting dizzy here???

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

Matt. 5:22, 29, 30

 

Matt. 10:28

 

Matt. 11:23

 

Matt. 18:19

 

Matt. 23:15, 33 

 

This is not proof at all. You simply took passages that had the word hell in it, and that doesn't really do anything.

I am pointing to the way hell (Gehenna) is used in those passages.  They are not referring to the dump in the valley of Hinnom.  The are referring to eternal state of unbelievers.

 

 

But that's precisely my point.

Just because it's not (also) speaking of the location doesn't mean it's not the valley.

Actually that is exactly what it means.  You are trying to push a metaphor too far.

 

Here is another example:

 

And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell (Gehenna)

(Jas 3:6)

 

There is no way that verse can be taken to be referring to the valley of Hinnom.

[dscapp]

Actually that is exactly what it means.  You are trying to push a metaphor too far.

 

Here is another example:

 

And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell (Gehenna)

(Jas 3:6)

 

There is no way that verse can be taken to be referring to the valley of Hinnom.

 

(This is simply saying that there will be fire in Gehenna, it doesn't specify the location and the duration) - Matt 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

 

(This is simply saying where to throw out your sinful parts, it doesn't specify the location and the duration) - Matt 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

 

(This is simply saying that your body and soul both can be destroyed in Gehenna. It doesn't specify the location, but it does specify the duration. Destroy is to destroy) - Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

(This is simply saying that you will go down to Hades. Hades is not Gehenna. Hades is the abode of the dead and the grave in which all people go too after they die awaiting judgment) - Matt 11:23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

 

(I have no idea what this passage has to do with anything we're discussing) - Matt 18:19 "Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

 

(This is simply stating the condition of the heart, using hell as a metaphor to describe the Pharisee. It doesn't specify the location and the duration) - Matt 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

 

(This is simply stating the place of condemnation which is Gehenna, it doesn't specify the location and the duration) - Matt 23:33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

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Matt. 5:22, 29, 30, Matt. 10:28, Matt. 23:15, 33 is describing what Gehenna represents. I'm describing where Gehenna is located.

 

What exactly are you getting out of Jer 31...

Jer 31:38-40

38 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever."

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Actually that is exactly what it means.  You are trying to push a metaphor too far.

 

Here is another example:

 

And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell (Gehenna)

(Jas 3:6)

 

There is no way that verse can be taken to be referring to the valley of Hinnom.

 

(This is simply saying that there will be fire in Gehenna, it doesn't specify the location and the duration) - Matt 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

 

(This is simply saying where to throw out your sinful parts, it doesn't specify the location and the duration) - Matt 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

 

(This is simply saying that your body and soul both can be destroyed in Gehenna. It doesn't specify the location, but it does specify the duration. Destroy is to destroy) - Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

(This is simply saying that you will go down to Hades. Hades is not Gehenna. Hades is the abode of the dead and the grave in which all people go too after they die awaiting judgment) - Matt 11:23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

 

(I have no idea what this passage has to do with anything we're discussing) - Matt 18:19 "Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

 

(This is simply stating the condition of the heart, using hell as a metaphor to describe the Pharisee. It doesn't specify the location and the duration) - Matt 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

 

(This is simply stating the place of condemnation which is Gehenna, it doesn't specify the location and the duration) - Matt 23:33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

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Matt. 5:22, 29, 30, Matt. 10:28, Matt. 23:15, 33 is describing what Gehenna represents. I'm describing where Gehenna is located.

 

Thank you for making my point.   As I said, and you have acknowledged, Jesus isn't speaking to a specific geographical location in those verses.  Thanks for the help

 

 

What exactly are you getting out of Jer 31...

 

Jer 31:38-40

38 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever."

 

That is talking about the millennial period prior to the New Heavens and New Earth.