Matt 24:31 - The first, second and third heaven

[dscapp]

'And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.'

 

The Bible speaks about a first heaven (earth's atmosphere), second heaven (outer space) and a third heaven (where God and His angels dwell).

 

I believe Matt 24:31 is speaking of the first heaven because it's a rapture scripture, unless you think otherwise.

[Openly Curious]

So what is the point in it being the first heaven?

[dscapp]

Some think this scripture is speaking about Jesus taking the believers that are in the third heaven already, proving soul sleep is false.

[OneLight]

Are you saying you believe in soul sleep?

[dscapp]

Are you saying you believe in soul sleep?

 

Absolutely. The soul along with the body will be risen at the first resurrection.

[OneLight]

Have you searched scripture to understand the first resurrection?  Read Revelation 20 for the answer. 

 

What is your take on 2 Corinthians 5:8 then?

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

[dscapp]

Have you searched scripture to understand the first resurrection?  Read Revelation 20 for the answer. 

 

What is your take on 2 Corinthians 5:8 then?

 

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

 

 

Hi OneLight. Yes, I have searched.

 

The first resurrection is when all believers that are dead in Christ will rise and meet Christ in the air. Rev 20:4-6

 

The first resurrection I believe will occur right after the sixth seal is open around the middle of the seven year great trib.

 

2 Cor 5:8 is simply stating the condition of the heart, it never gives a timeline.

[OneLight]

Have you searched scripture to understand the first resurrection?  Read Revelation 20 for the answer. 

 

What is your take on 2 Corinthians 5:8 then?

 

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

 

Hi OneLight. Yes, I have searched.

 

The first resurrection is when all believers that are dead in Christ will rise and meet Christ in the air. Rev 20:4-6

 

The first resurrection I believe will occur right after the sixth seal is open around the middle of the seven year great trib.

 

2 Cor 5:8 is simply stating the condition of the heart, it never gives a timeline.

 

Not quite.  This is what scripture says.

Revelation 20:4-7

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Notice only a select group is mentioned, those who were beheaded and refused the mark. This is not all Christians who have died.

As for 2 Corinthians 5:8, you miss a lot if you do not see that being absent from the body is to be with the Lord. Our spirits are with Christ upon death, but we do not receive our new bodies until His return. Who are those under the Throne crying out for revenge in the opening of the 5th seal if it is not those who have already died? How are their souls sleeping?? How can they be those who are raptured if you claim the rapture occurs at the 6th seal, which I would disagree with.

[dscapp]

Revelation 20:4-7

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Notice only a select group is mentioned, those who were beheaded and refused the mark. This is not all Christians who have died.

 

Rev 20:4-6 is speaking of two events that will occur probably within minutes of each other, the first resurrection and then the rapture of the church. The first resurrection are those who are dead in Christ along with the beheaded. The rapture are those who are still alive along with those who refused the mark. Two sets of people here inside back to back events.

 

As for 2 Corinthians 5:8, you miss a lot if you do not see that being absent from the body is to be with the Lord. Our spirits are with Christ upon death, but we do not receive our new bodies until His return. Who are those under the Throne crying out for revenge in the opening of the 5th seal if it is not those who have already died? How are their souls sleeping?? How can they be those who are raptured if you claim the rapture occurs at the 6th seal, which I would disagree with.

 

Paul is speaking about the condition of the heart in 2 Cor 5:8. The dead know nothing right now, so for them it will be instant. The 5th seal is a vision of martyrdom given to John. This vision is describing all those who have been martyred from 2000 years up to the middle of the seven year great tribulation. The dead souls are sleeping right now, and their spirit went back to God who gave it. There are multiple scriptures that mention the sun, moon, stars and an earthquake along with Rev 6:12-14 being in accordance with the seven year great tribulation. - ds

[Floatingaxe]

 

Are you saying you believe in soul sleep?

 

Absolutely. The soul along with the body will be risen at the first resurrection.

 

 

Not true. Those who are dead in Christ now are with Jesus in spirit and in soul---which is the mind will and emotions part of man. The body is the only thing that remains, reverting to the dust from whence it came. At the resurrection the soul and spirit are united with a whole new risen body.

 

No one sleeps.