Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?

[Persuaded]

I wrote a summary of the jewish wedding It seems clear from that pattern that the raptured church is in the huppah for the "week".

 

From reading further in that thread, you can also see that some here have rather different views!

[Persuaded]

Oops, just saw your link, W.

That's close to what I know, except his final conclusion is a little wonky.

 

Israel is clearly the pregnant woman of Rev 12. If she is then the bride in Rev 19, then she's in trouble!

 

[Rev 12:1,2 KJV] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

 

Which is interpreted by Joseph's dream, describing his father and mother and 11 brothers:

 

[Gen 37:9 KJV] And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

[Daniel 11:36]

My comments:

 

The marriage feast will be the first thing that takes place in heaven just after the Lord immortalizes His true Ecclesia [called out ones] of both the dead in Christ and those living at the time [Matthew 25:1-13; 1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10]

 

We can see the timing of the feast by knowing that the "great city" of Mystery Babylon the Great on the earth will fall as the first judgment of the tribulation period [Revelation 8:6-12; 14:8; 18:4; 19:1-9 .... notice that His Ecclesia [the true church] is in heaven for the feast and these [the great multitude] observe the destruction of the "great city" of MBG

 

Revelation is a collection of visions on various subjects like the "Lamb's wife" [His true Ecclesia] .... the subject visions repeat adding more details as the narrative of the book moves forward

 

So  the Lord's true Ecclesia is seen at the very onset of the tribulation period in heaven and not on the earth [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17] .... then we can observe the same with more details given by repetition here .... those who dwell in heaven during the tribulation [Revelation 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:1-9]

 

The we can see the same Ecclesia again with the Lord contending against Satan's beast and human followers here [Revelation 19:14]

 

The book of Revelation is not written is strict chronological order, but layered with subject details

 

Always take the first time that a subject is presented as its chronological position

 

In this case His Ecclesia are seen in heaven just before the tribulation begins upon the earth [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10]

 

Then there are several observations of the same giving more related details as Revelation unfolds

 

Also the woman of Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel .... not the immortal church who will already be in heaven, and certainly not Mary .... she is one of the dead in Christ that will be resurrected along with living believers at the time the Lord calls out His true Ecclesia just before the tribulation begin

 

Revelation 12 is strictly a focus upon Israel, the nation's historical back drop, and during the coming tribulation on the earth [the time of Jacob's trouble] [Jeremiah 30], the Lord, and Satan

 

The Lord's pre-tribulation Ecclesia will consist of mostly Gentiles and a few of Israel like Abraham, David, the prophets, and the Apostles

 

 ... most all of Israel has remained in blindness since the first century to this very day and has rejected their Messiah and King [Romans 11:25-36]

 

But this is going to change during the coming tribulation period .... a remnant will discover the truth and accept Him .... the first of Israel to turn will be the 144000 [Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-7] .... and others will follow [Zechariah 13:8-9; Mathew 24:15-16]  

Edited October 23, 2014 by Daniel 11:36

[Persuaded]

My comments:

 

The marriage feast will be the first thing that takes place in heaven just after the Lord immortalizes His true Ecclesia [called out ones] of both the dead in Christ and those living at the time [Matthew 25:1-13; 1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10]

 

We can see the timing of the feast by knowing that the "great city" of Mystery Babylon the Great on the earth will fall as the first judgment of the tribulation period [Revelation 8:6-12; 14:8; 18:4; 19:1-9 .... notice that His Ecclesia [the true church] is in heaven for the feast and these [the great multitude] observe the destruction of the "great city" of MBG

 

Revelation is a collection of visions on various subjects like the "Lamb's wife" [His true Ecclesia] .... the subject visions repeat adding more details as the narrative of the book moves forward

 

So  the Lord's true Ecclesia is seen at the very onset of the tribulation period in heaven and not on the earth [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17] .... then we can observe the same with more details given by repetition here .... those who dwell in heaven during the tribulation [Revelation 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:1-9]

 

The we can see the same Ecclesia again with the Lord contending against Satan's beast and human followers here [Revelation 19:14]

 

The book of Revelation is not written is strict chronological order, but layered with subject details

 

Always take the first time that a subject is presented as its chronological position

 

In this case His Ecclesia are seen in heaven just before the tribulation begins upon the earth [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10]

 

Then there are several observations of the same giving more related details as Revelation unfolds

 

Also the woman of Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel .... not the immortal church who will already be in heaven, and certainly not Mary .... she is one of the dead in Christ that will be resurrected along with living believers at the time the Lord calls out His true Ecclesia just before the tribulation begin

 

Revelation 12 is strictly a focus upon Israel, the nation's historical back drop, and during the coming tribulation on the earth [the time of Jacob's trouble] [Jeremiah 30], the Lord, and Satan

 

The Lord's pre-tribulation Ecclesia will consist of mostly Gentiles and a few of Israel like Abraham, David, the prophets, and the Apostles

 

 ... most all of Israel has remained in blindness since the first century to this very day and has rejected their Messiah and King [Romans 11]

 

But this is going to change during the coming tribulation period and a remnant will discover the truth and accept Him .... the first of Israel to turn will be the 144000 [Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-7]  

I'm going to push back against a few things you've said here.

 

1) I don't see evidence of a feast in the verses you quoted. It appears to come in ch 19.

 

2) "called out assembly" is the etymological meaning of ekklesia, but not its definition in use. In OT (LXX) and ancient greek usage, it referred to a meeting, a gathering, not to the people that met or gathered. Each new meeting was a new ekklesia. The things accomplished at an ekklesia were reported as done by the group that met, not by the ekklesia. Jesus begins to change that with His statement that He would build His ekklesia (not, "meeting") on this Rock, and the usage continues to shift further under Paul as he writes "all the churches salute you", and even "And He put all [things] under His feet, and gave Him [to be] head over all [things] to the ekklesia, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all." Most that quote the "called out assembly" definition do so to promote the idea that the ekklesia began as Israel and is now replaced or absorbed by the church.

 

3)There's other judgments that occur before ch8, say in ch6.

 

4) The cyclical approach is popular, but flawed. The judgments do relate, but aren't the same. In the same way that the plagues of Egypt followed an ABCCBA pattern, these seals, trumps, bowls also follow a pattern. But just as the first and tenth, second and eighth, etc. plagues were similar, they weren't the same events "redescribed". Same here.

 

5) Yes, the woman of ch 12 is Israel, but in the sense that she starts with Eve, giving birth, generation by generation, to the seed of the woman from Gen 3.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Willamina.

 

 

My comment:
 
The "bride" in Revelation 19:1-9 is the Lord's immortal Ecclesia ..... both pre-tribulation and tribulation members [Matthew 25:1-13 [those with oil]; Revelation 3:10; 4:4; 5:1-10; 7;9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:14; 20:4 [those on thrones] 
 
The new Jerusalem seen in Revelation 21 is the new city of Jerusalem prepared in heaven and which will be placed upon a renovated new earth [the older Jerusalem of the Lord's millennial kingdom on this present earth will be purged with fire along with this current earth [2 Peter 3:10-13; Revelation 20:7-9; 21:1-2]]  
 
The term "as a bride" in Revelation 21:2 describes this city and not the same as the "bride" of Revelation 19

Thank you Daniel. In Rev 19:7 she is call His WIFE for the first time, and that the marriage feast of the Lamb has come. Does that mean that the wedding feast takes place in heaven?

 

 

No, that’s not right because part of the Jewish wedding feast entails quantities of wine. For example:

 

John 2:1-3

1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

KJV

 

HOWEVER, Yeshua` said this to His twelve at the last Pesach Seder He shared with them:

 

Matthew 26:29

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

KJV

 

Mark 14:25

25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

KJV

 

Luke 22:18

18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

KJV

 

So, the marriage supper of the Lamb will not occur until AFTER He has returned.

[Persuaded]

Is there a rule against wine in heaven, in the Father's kingdom?

[Daniel 11:36]

The Issue is about "when He returns" Retro

 

You say at the end of the tribulation

 

I say He brings it and executes it .... and then appears at the end of it

 

So He only returns once ... at the beginning of the tribulation

 

And I don't think your application of the Jewish feast scriptures applies .... Israel is in unbelief today and the things that you are using to define your view are not in operation today in my opinion

 

These things will only apply after the tribulation and this present age has ended .....they will apply during the Lord's coming millennial kingdom that He will rule from Jerusalem for certain symbolic reasons

 

You speak as if you might be a Messianic Jew and I do not agree the insertion of the Jewish feast days, the wine, etc. as a means of developing exegetical time lapse before the Lord's millennial kingdom is established

 

I know that there are some Gentile Christian sectors who use your methodology as well, but do not agree with the theology

 

I also know individuals of Messianic Judaism who are following rabbis today that are subjecting their following to the Judaic laws which I would not recommend doing .... and there are some sectors of professing Gentile Christianity that claim to be Israel [replacement theology] and also are selective law keepers  

 

These things will come after this present age of the Lord's grace and His hour [time] of trial and judgment upon an unbelieving world of human intransigence ..... during His 1000 year kingdom upon the earth [Ezekiel 40-48; Zechariah 14]

 

My advice .... make certain that you are ready [maybe you are] for the Lord's call just before the coming tribulation .... He will call at a time not predictable and with no warning .... could be before this day is over

 

Humans not ready will enter the tribulation and this period will subject any that go there to much vexation, confusion, and deception .... not an environment conducive for one to repent and turn to the Lord

 

However, He will still accept repentance throughout the period [Revelation 3:15-19]

Edited October 23, 2014 by Daniel 11:36

[ENOCH2010]

Daniel, where is that pre-trib resurrection that raises Mary along with the living believers spoken of in the Bible? Chapter and verse please!!!!!

[Marilyn C]

I`m sorry to interrupt your conversations fellas, but I do want to reply to Willamina.

 

Hi Willamina,

 

This is in reply to your comments concerning the `bride.` For something to be a doctrine it needs to have many scriptures with a development of the topic. For example, Salvation, Baptism, the Lordship of Christ etc. Now for the `bride,` the wife of the Lamb, we only see that developed in the Old testament with regards to Israel. You have thought that we are now with them as the `bride.` However God say that there are the 3 groups that he deals with -

 

`Give no offense either to the Jews, or to Greeks (nations) or to the Church of God.`  (1 Cor. 10: 33)

 

Over the years people have put together a few scriptures to try & back up their beliefs that the Church is a bride. Here are the scriptures.

 

Rom. 7: 4 `Therefore my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, that you may be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead,...`

 

Some translations have written `married,` instead of joined. The Greek word is `ginomai,` which means `might become.` To marry is the word `gamed,` which is quite different. The Apostle Paul warns of people trying to defraud the believers by -

 

`not holding fast to the Head, from whom the entire Body, being supplied & held together by the joints & ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.` (Col. 2: 19) 

 

You also mentioned 2 Cor. 11: 2. Here we see that it is the Apostle Paul speaking to his disciples & saying to them that he wants to present them to the Lord, pure & spotless in their devotion to Christ. Paul will not present us to Christ. That scripture is specifically for Paul`s disciples at that time.

 

We are the Body of Christ & that doctrine has been written & developed over many scriptures by the Apostle Paul. It was a `mystery,` till the Holy Spirit revealed it to Paul. Israel is the Bride, symbolic of their relationship, & this was known & not a mystery.

 

Hope that is helpful. Marilyn.

[Daniel 11:36]

Like I have already stated Enoch,  Mary is one of the dead in Christ who is waiting for the Lord to call His true Ecclesia home just before the coming tribulation .... I am making the assumption that Mary was a believer at her death

 

I have already posted the scriptures supporting the event and the evidence

 

And most students of the scriptures know that no one has gone to heaven except the One Jesus Christ who came down from heaven .... this is still true today

 

It is the RCC tradition that teaches something very different about Mary and the teaching has no scriptural support what so ever 

Edited October 24, 2014 by Daniel 11:36