Non-OSAS and sleep

[Guest Butero]

 

The thing is Dscapp, I don't care if you want to avoid going around in circles till our hair falls out.  I don't care about arguing endlessly either.  At the same time, if all you are going to do is say my position is not Biblical, I will just say I stand by what I said and it is Biblical, and we will have gotten nowhere.  It is a complete waste of time.  I have thoroughly studies this topic, and have debated it ever since I joined WB 10 years ago.

Well said I couldn't of said it better.

 

Thank you. 

[OneLight]

Who said they turn back to God. You are assuming that everyone who looses their faith returns. That is a false premise.

 

OneLight, if they never turn back to God they were never born again to begin with.

This is the one statement that is always used when someone cannot argue against scripture given, or answer questions asked to them. To be honest, I have been watching for it to be used.

There is only one person that ever lived that knows the hearts of anyone, and His name is Jesus. I am sorry to inform you, but you, nor I, are Him. We can never how if a person had been truly born again or not, but we can see the fruit they provide while they walk with Christ. This fruit comes from the Holy Spirit, not from man. IF they do have the fruit of the Spirit, then they had been with the Spirit. These are who are being spoken of in Hebrews.

Hebrews 6:4-7

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

According to scripture, your statement is wrong.

[OneLight]

 

Besides waiting for an answer to post #60, can you also tell me what you believe James meant in the following statement?

James 5_19-20

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

 

 

Notice that other translations say, Let him know, that he who converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 

Translators do choose the word the translator feels best fits according to their belief, so they can be wrongfully translated, and the reason why there are so many different translations. The best way to ensure you know what word is best is to look to the original (the copies we do have) and compare what was written to what the translation says. The word for word translation of James 5:19-20 reads:

 

5:19

adelfoi(brothers) ean(if-ever) tis(any) en(in) umin(you) planhgh(may-be-being-strayed or may-be-being-led-astray) apo(from) ths(the) alhqeias(truth) ...

 

5:20

ginwsketw(let-him-be-knowing) oti(that) o(the) epistreyas(one-turning-back) amartwlon(sinner or misser) ek(out) planhs(of-straying or of-deception) ...

It clearly shows that the action is to turn back, not convert. James was speaking of those who walk with them in the truth, their brothers and sisters in Christ, not sinners who had never walk with them in the truth.

[GoldenEagle]

I'm sure this will not be a popular view. But I believe like dscapp in OSAS.

Perhaps though Dscapp you could be a little more loving and gracious towards people in your wording? You might find that people are more willing to listen to what you have to say that way. Just a thought brother/sister.

Consider God's Word:

Phil 2:3

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.

Gal. 6:1

Brothers,if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

Eph. 4:32

Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

1 Pet. 5:5

⁵ Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for

“God resists the proud,

But gives grace to the humble.”

God bless,

GE

 

OSAS or Eternal security or whatever doesn't tell people to do whatever they want. Those are lies planted in your mind by the devil.

 

 

So a view that differs from yours Dscapp is planted in someone's mind by the devil?

Discrediting the other side in this manner is neither loving or gracious. Did you read the passages I provided?

Why do you think people will listen to what you have to say with this kind of argument?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

It is not enough to claim what I said is not Biblical.  Prove it. 

 

Is this where we disagree with each other's scriptures until our hair falls out. I'm not falling for that trap, sorry.

Then waht is the point of this thread? Are you simply going to tell people they are wrong? That may work in other sites but people eventually will simply tone you out. Opinion are great. God's Word (Scripture) is better.

Obviously you consider yourself spiritual. How are you following Scripture then? For example see below.

Phil 2:3

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.

Gal. 6:1

Brothers,if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

What you're doing simply makes those of us who believe like you in OSAS look like we don't know how to defend our positions with Scripture. Or that we are simply unwilling to do so. That is neither helpful nor promoting honest discussion. Just saying. Something to consider friend.

God bless,

GE

[WarriorforHim]

If OSAS was true why so many commandments..613..do we need to obey?.. repentance is one commandment which needs to be obeyed.Salvation is not by works,but salvation is only the begining.Santification is a daily walk.

 John 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)

⁸ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

⁹ If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

¹⁰ If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

I do believe that a true Christian will obey after salvation,but we still have flesh which is sinful nature.. we can't be saved and live like demons. The question is does He know you..you might know Him but does He know you.Many will cry Lord Lord but will not enter the kingdom of God.Will He say depart from Me or.. well done my faithful servant?

Edited August 9, 2014 by wfHim

[Guest shiloh357]

If OSAS was true why so many commandments..613..do we need to obey?.. repentance is one commandment which needs to be obeyed.

 

 

If you think your saved because your obedience was good enough to earn eternal life, you are going to be sadly disappointed.  In the Bible, obedience is the result of salvation, not the means by which salvation is gained.

[dscapp]

that's not exactly true, either.

 

So what are your thoughts on James 5:19-20 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

[Guest Butero]

19  Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20  Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 

James 5:19,20

 

This doesn't seem difficult to me.  If I help to restore a sinner back to God, his soul and saved from hell, and though he committed a multitude of sins, they are now forgiven.  This isn't saying that a multitude of my sins are forgiven because I led the man back to the truth. 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

that's not exactly true, either.

 

So what are your thoughts on James 5:19-20 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

 

Those two verses reflect the character of the epistle.  It's all about calling people to a genuine salvation.  The entire epistle is evangelistic. 

 

He calls the readers "brothers"  but that is a general term.  It doesn't mean that he assumes that everyone who hearing the epistle read are genuine brothers in the Lord.  Some are brothers only in an outward way.  They are not genuinely saved. 

 

He is talking about those who are genuine going out and leading those who are false brethren to the Lord.   He is talking to a an assembly of Christ followers in general, but there were those among them, just as there are those among us who profess Christ with their lips but live sinfully.

 

I agree with Butero that it is referring to the sinner's sins, not the sins of the person who leads the sinner to the Lord.