Science and Miracles

[kwikphilly]

Blessings clb...

    Good to hear from you again,hope you are well & God Bless you..................don't know how the atoms all came together to make a loaf of bread appear & I don't know how they came together to make a planet,such as the earth when God created it out of nothing or the whole universe for that matter...................but I do now that I had stage 4 incurable cancer with a malignant tumor the size of an orange that they tried to shrink for months & months with chemo/radiation & nothing was happening,not bigger,not smaller & then one day it was simply ,miraculously gone?!! The doctors thought for sure there must be something wrong with the pet scan....but there was not...it had vanished,where did those atoms go?I say,,,,,,who cares,thank you Jesus!

                                                                                                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik

[a-seeker]

Hello ConnorLiamBrown,

 

Lets look at other miracles too.

 

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ( Genesis 1:1)

 

 

Resurrection of Christ.

 

Jesus Christ raised from dead.

 

40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.      (Acts 10)

 

 

14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. (1 Thessalonians 4)

 

Another miracle to be performed.

 

17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.   (1 Thessalonians 4)

 

  Greetings !

 

Yes, these are all miracles that would involve natural processes....although the last one may be a metaphor derived from Roman culture.

 

clb

[a-seeker]

Blessings clb...

    Good to hear from you again,hope you are well & God Bless you..................don't know how the atoms all came together to make a loaf of bread appear & I don't know how they came together to make a planet,such as the earth when God created it out of nothing or the whole universe for that matter...................but I do now that I had stage 4 incurable cancer with a malignant tumor the size of an orange that they tried to shrink for months & months with chemo/radiation & nothing was happening,not bigger,not smaller & then one day it was simply ,miraculously gone?!! The doctors thought for sure there must be something wrong with the pet scan....but there was not...it had vanished,where did those atoms go?I say,,,,,,who cares,thank you Jesus!

                                                                                                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik

Love stories like that; even more when they are from  people like you.

 

clb

[a-seeker]

This is one of those "how big is your God?" kind of questions. In the first verse of Genesis God created (bara, cause to exist) about 10^80 atoms. There are jewish commentaries that describe Him as speaking them into existence, presciently describing John 1:3- ...and without (the Word) was not any thing made that was made.

 

If you can get your head around that, the rest is trivial.

       If your God is smaller than that, may I suggest an upgrade?

 

Not quite.

 

How big is your God is a question for skeptics.  I am not skeptical about the possibility of multiplying bread; I am simply interested in the natural processes that such a miracle must have entailed.  Either the extra bread really was bread; or it wasn't.  The gospels suggest it really was bread--so then, once we didn't have bread, and then we did--real bread, made up of all the molecules of ordinary bread.  I am simply curious how that process occurred.

 

clb

[Guest]

I am not skeptical about the possibility of multiplying bread;

 

I am simply interested in the natural processes that such a miracle must have entailed.

 

~

 

And Dear One, Therein Do You Error

 

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

For Either Jesus Is The LORD

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

Or He Isn't

 

But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

 

And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 2 Peter 2:12-13

 

You See

 

Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 2 Peter 2:14

 

~

 

Believe

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

And Be Blessed Beloved

 

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

 

Love, Joe

[He giveth more grace]

We are finite and God is infinite, I think that your wanting to know what transpire at the molecular level doesn't edify or benefit us at all.

He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel. Psalms 103:7

God's ways are higher than under a microscope. Molecule's are the creature, get to know God's heart and let how his miracles are preformed at one of the smallest building block of creation be God's business.

[Fez]

 

This is one of those "how big is your God?" kind of questions. In the first verse of Genesis God created (bara, cause to exist) about 10^80 atoms. There are jewish commentaries that describe Him as speaking them into existence, presciently describing John 1:3- ...and without (the Word) was not any thing made that was made.

 

If you can get your head around that, the rest is trivial.

       If your God is smaller than that, may I suggest an upgrade?

 

Not quite.

 

How big is your God is a question for skeptics.  I am not skeptical about the possibility of multiplying bread; I am simply interested in the natural processes that such a miracle must have entailed.  Either the extra bread really was bread; or it wasn't.  The gospels suggest it really was bread--so then, once we didn't have bread, and then we did--real bread, made up of all the molecules of ordinary bread.  I am simply curious how that process occurred.

 

clb

 

 I am simply interested in the natural processes that such a miracle must have entailed.

 

Why does God have to do things by natural process? People have given you examples of miracles, quoted scripture of the creation of all, and yet you still don't grasp who God is, and what he is capable of (which is anything). 

 

It's called faith, the very foundation of our Christian belief.

 

Do you believe the miracles happened as the Word states? Water to wine, bread in abundance, manna, raising from the dead, the earth swallowing tribes, the parting of the seas, the bringing of rain,  the defeat of thousands by hundreds, pillars of fire, virgin birth, alters cracked in two, axe heads floating, etc? Do you believe the miracles occurred?

 

As simple yes or no would suffice. (I don't need you to explain them to me, to rationalize them to me Connor, I just need a simple answer).

 

Yes or No?

[He giveth more grace]

Connor, the Tabernacle in the wilderness had some "furniture" of priestly service. When they moved the Tabernacle, as directed by God, the Levites would cover the furniture with varied coverings such as linen, scarlet, and Badgers skin's (I may be leaving something out). God gave the reason, so that the people wouldn't gaze upon the Holy objects; God didn't wish to make the things of worship to him and make them objects of amusement and pointing the finger in awe and for public display.

Connor, I think that you want to gaze upon the glory and power of God Almighty, in those things that he hides from view. Seek his face and not his ways.

Love you in The Lord.

[a-seeker]

We are finite and God is infinite, I think that your wanting to know what transpire at the molecular level doesn't edify or benefit us at all.

He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel. Psalms 103:7

God's ways are higher than under a microscope. Molecule's are the creature, get to know God's heart and let how his miracles are preformed at one of the smallest building block of creation be God's business.

 

I think I have earned the label of "skeptic" from other posts, which is rather unfair.  I made it clear in the OP that I was not questioning the possibilities of miracles, I was simply curious about what such involve, and so I made a request to those with more science under their belts than I.  

 

As far as edification, 2 things.  I saw an OP the other day that was titled "Would you parachute out of a plane?"  I glanced through the responses and don't believe I saw a single quote from the Bible, or the name of God mentioned, nor of Jesus.  This is not to mock that thread--the OP was simply curious about something, so am I. Secondly, I feel "edified" to think about God's operations on the universe; you may not, but other people might.

 

clb

 

Oh, I believe Jesus is Lord and saved me from my sins--I keep forgetting to end with that as I am still labeled "Seeker".

Edited August 29, 2014 by ConnorLiamBrown

[a-seeker]

 

 

This is one of those "how big is your God?" kind of questions. In the first verse of Genesis God created (bara, cause to exist) about 10^80 atoms. There are jewish commentaries that describe Him as speaking them into existence, presciently describing John 1:3- ...and without (the Word) was not any thing made that was made.

 

If you can get your head around that, the rest is trivial.

       If your God is smaller than that, may I suggest an upgrade?

 

Not quite.

 

How big is your God is a question for skeptics.  I am not skeptical about the possibility of multiplying bread; I am simply interested in the natural processes that such a miracle must have entailed.  Either the extra bread really was bread; or it wasn't.  The gospels suggest it really was bread--so then, once we didn't have bread, and then we did--real bread, made up of all the molecules of ordinary bread.  I am simply curious how that process occurred.

 

clb

 

 I am simply interested in the natural processes that such a miracle must have entailed.

 

Why does God have to do things by natural process? People have given you examples of miracles, quoted scripture of the creation of all, and yet you still don't grasp who God is, and what he is capable of (which is anything). 

 

It's called faith, the very foundation of our Christian belief.

 

Do you believe the miracles happened as the Word states? Water to wine, bread in abundance, manna, raising from the dead, the earth swallowing tribes, the parting of the seas, the bringing of rain,  the defeat of thousands by hundreds, pillars of fire, virgin birth, alters cracked in two, axe heads floating, etc? Do you believe the miracles occurred?

 

As simple yes or no would suffice. (I don't need you to explain them to me, to rationalize them to me Connor, I just need a simple answer).

 

Yes or No

 

Well, first a "No, you don't" to this:

 

As simple yes or no would suffice. (I don't need you to explain them to me, to rationalize them to me Connor, I just need a simple answer).

 

 

 

 

Why in the world would you need to know whether I believe in miracles?  What do you care if I do or don't, Fez?

 

As to this:

 

Why does God have to do things by natural process? People have given you examples of miracles, quoted scripture of the creation of all, and yet you still don't grasp who God is, and what he is capable of (which is anything). 

 

 

 

 

I don't think you've grasped what miracles are.  I would start with C.S. Lewis' Miracles and then go on to the books that his will lead you to.

 

clb