Does Purgatory exist or not?

[alien224]

No.

[Guest]

then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 2 Peter 2:9 (ESV)

I am only quoting this part cause it was bolded: Joe this says he knows how to rescue but does not say how it's done. I am not refuting Heaven and Hell. I don't believe that when we die that we die without sin. We all have some kind of sin in our hearts and until that is cleansed from us we can not enter Heaven.

I really don't care what it's called, whether its Purgatory, or dry cleaning for the soul. Before we enter Heaven I believe there is some cleansing of the soul that takes place.

 

~

 

Jesus (Through Saint Peter No Less) Said HE Knows How To Rescue

 

then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 2 Peter 2:9 (ESV)

 

And He Surely

 

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 5:24 (ESV)

 

Does

 

Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25 (ESV)

 

So Beloved

 

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48

 

How Long Do You Think A Fellow Must Spend In Hell

 

Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law. Romans 3:27-28 (NLT)

 

To Pay For His Sins

 

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 (ESV)

 

~

 

Be

 

When we were utterly helpless, Christ came at just the right time and died for us sinners.

 

Now, most people would not be willing to die for an upright person, though someone might perhaps be willing to die for a person who is especially good.

 

But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners. Romans 5:6-8 (NLT)

 

Blessed

 

And since we have been made right in God’s sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God’s condemnation.

 

For since our friendship with God was restored by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be saved through the life of his Son.

 

So now we can rejoice in our wonderful new relationship with God because our Lord Jesus Christ has made us friends of God. Romans 5:9-11 (NLT)

 

Beloved Of The KING

 

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 3:26

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Marilyn C]

Hi Judas,

 

Glad we had some agreement there. Now you mentioned the word `judged.` I`m not sure what you mean by that & you can explain if I have taken you wrongly. The Body of Christ is not `judged,` as Christ took our judgment, punishment. However we all must appear at the `Bema` seat of Christ, which is where the rewards are handed out, `crowns,` responsibilities, for what we have done through the power of the Holy Spirit. All the glory is to the Lord so to get a `crown,` (there are 5) is to show that Christ is glorified in our lives. That is why the 24 elders (representative of the Body) cast their crowns before Him. (Rev. 4: 10)

 

Bema seat - (2 Cor. 5: 9 & 10)

Crowns - ( James 1: 12    1 Thess. 2: 19   1 Peter 5: 2 - 4    1 Cor. 9: 24 - 27   2 Tim. 4: 8)

[OneLight]

Judas, it is very simple. I underlined the scripture that tells us that once we die, there is no more time for redemption, just judgment. We do not have a purgatory, or any other time, to cleanse ourselves. He paid for all our sins and if we run the race and finish, He is able to cleanse us of all sins, known and unknown.

I have no idea where your question about once saved always save comes from ... surely not from me.

 

I re-read that passage with what you said as perspective and I'm not saying the cleansing of the soul happens before the judgement. If you are bound for Hell than there is no cleansing that would be needed. At least I wouldn't think so. So what I'm talking about is after being judged. If you are judged and saved than all and any sin that has remained (sins that are unrepented) need to be disposed of cause you can not enter into heaven with sin on your soul. That passage you quoted doesn't say you are instantly taken to heaven. I do not know of any passage that says you are instantly taken into heaven the very moment you die.

Do you believe that when Jesus forgives, it is final, or do you think He cannot do the job and we need a final cleansing? When considering the question, also ask yourself if you believe He knows everything about us, better than we do, and when we ask for Him to forgive us of our sins, does He really need a laundry list?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

K two birds with one stone:

MarIilyn, when I said "judge" I am referring to the moment it's determined if you are saved or not at the time of death . I believe you can accept Christ be saved and still reject Christ (the act of choosing sin over following Christ) and if you die in that state you could very will be dammed.

Let me clarify how I see being saved. I believe you are saved at baptism ( there is already a huge debate over this in another thread). When you are baptized I believe that is when the Holy Spirit descends upon you and begins to reside in you. As we go through life we are free to choose righteousness (following Gods will) our choose our will over his (choosing to sin). I believe that the moment you die God will jugde you saved or damned. Because Jesus died on the cross, we have been given the opportunity to have our sins forgiven and I believe there is only one unforgivable sin (rejecting the Holy Spirit). Therefore if we turn to Jesus and ask to be forgiven we will be. BUT if you do not ask to be forgiven than you are choosing to reject his gift of the cross and if you die while in that state I believe you salvation is in grave danger. Therefore when you die you are judged saved or damned.

Onelight: I will defer to Marilyn's post. She put it very well

`If any man`s work is burned up he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet as through fire.` (1 Cor. 3: 15)

There seems to be some burning fire after you die I call it cleansing cause that seems to be what is happening. The bad is burned away and you are left with only the good and pure. And this seems to only be done to those that are saved.

So I guess the question is. When is this done? Do you face the burning fire in Heaven or before? I would say before because I would think the bad would need to be burned away before Heaven.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Judas Machabeus

[OneLight]

Judas, the Bema Seat Judgment is not a purification of our spirit/soul from sin, but of the works we did.  This has nothing to do with salvation, but the rewards we will be given.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

I know it doesn't have anything to do with salvation, it's only for those that are saved.

And I meant Marilyn's previous post:

Marilyn C's PhotoMarilyn C

Yesterday, 10:24 PM

Hi Judas,

In Christ we are righteous for He took our punishment. This is the foundation that the Apostle Paul was talking about, (1 Cor. 3:11) & then he goes on to tell us to be careful how we build on that. Each person`s work, whether done by the power of the Holy Spirit or done for selfish reasons, all these will be exposed. So what is not repented of, not done through the Holy Spirit, all this will be `burnt up,` in God`s holy fire & only what is of Christ will remain.

`If any man`s work is burned up he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet as through fire.` (1 Cor. 3: 15)

Hope that helps you.

[OneLight]

Helps me?  I have known about he Bema Seat for many years.  Again, our works do not keep us from heaven, which is what this thread is about.  It tries our works in Christ.  Those works that were of Him will stand, and we will be rewarded for follow His will.  Those that are of our flesh will burn, and we will suffer loss in that those works were a waste of time and may of caused damage to someone else.

 

Nothing about the trying of our works have anything to do with how purgatory is defined or explained.  They are two totally different ideas and cannot be combined.  I hope that helps you better understand the difference.

[Guest]

`If any man`s work is burned up he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet as through fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15

There seems to be some burning fire after you die I call it cleansing cause that seems to be what is happening. The bad is burned away and you are left with only the good and pure. And this seems to only be done to those that are saved.

So I guess the question is. When is this done? Do you face the burning fire in Heaven or before? I would say before because I would think the bad would need to be burned away before Heaven.

 

~

 

Rewards Maybe Lost

 

Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. 2 John 1:8 (ESV)

 

But Never Will The Beloved

 

When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.  Isaiah 432 (ESV)

 

Face God's Wrath

 

Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. Romans 5:9 (ESV)

 

Yet Liers

 

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,

 

who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

 

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

 

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived,

 

ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.

 

So they are without excuse.  Romans 1:18-20 (ESV)

 

Will

 

But this I call to mind, and therefore I have hope:

 

The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;

 

they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. Lamentations 3:21-23 (ESV)

 

~

 

Beloved You See, There Are Evil Folk Who Know Better

 

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 1 Peter 1:23 (NIV)

 

But Still Insist People Be Baptized Into Their Club

 

"I baptize you with water for repentance.

 

But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.

 

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11 (NIV)

 

While They Claim The

 

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

 

But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

 

And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

 

And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. Matthew 23:4-7

 

Seat Of

 

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

 

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. Matthew 23:8-10

 

Christ

 

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear,

 

but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”  Romans 8:15 (ESV)

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Salty]

Does Purgatory exists or not? So many people say it does but where in the Bible can I find the proof of its existance? I use the KJV Bible and texts must please be supplied to prove your point.

 

I'm not Catholic. But the 'idea' that became their tradition is... written in God's Word. In Luke 16 our Lord Jesus mentioned a story about Lazarus and the rich man, both died and one was taken to one side of a great fixed gulf border of separation, and the other was taken to the other side, with one side being the abode of the wicked called hell.

 

When one of the malefactors crucified with Jesus asked Him to remember him when Jesus came into His Kingdom, and Jesus said that day he would be with Him in Paradise, that is pointing to that same kind of picture our Lord Jesus gave us in Luke 16. (Recall Jesus at His Resurrection went to preach to the "spirits in prison" which relates that area in the heavenly).

 

The Catholic world took that kind of idea about that Paradise and then created their 'own' traditions with purgatory.

 

Then there also are many pagan traditions of old about the idea of what 'paradise' is, even within Islam.