Does Purgatory exist or not?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Well I did look up what the Catholic Church says about Purgatory. And it was even posted in this thread.

Making a false claim is a form of bashing. So you are bashing the Catholic Church when you make false claims.

[OneLight]

Well I did look up what the Catholic Church says about Purgatory. And it was even posted in this thread.

Making a false claim is a form of bashing. So you are bashing the Catholic Church when you make false claims.

I really can't prove to you that this is what I was taught, and I speak the truth of what I was taught, not that what I was taught is the truth. If I could cut and paste my past into a post, I would.

What I claim is not a lie. What I was taught is.

By the way, Judas. Is your personal attack the type of integrity you spoke of when you said " My point is we should be people of integrity." in post 49?

If you are so inclined to do your own research on this matter, search the Catechism of the Catholic Church, part One, section Two, Chapter Three, article 12, you will find how the "Church" entitles itself.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Onelight I looked it up and found that my suspicions were correct. The RCC does does NOT teach that you have a second chance after death. Cause of the rules of this forum I won't post the entire paragraphs.

Paragraph 1021: repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death

Paragraph 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death,

That's only 2 paragraphs from that section that clearly states that there are NO second chances after death. You are judged immediately upon death.

As for insinuating that I personally attacked you is well I don't want to be accused of a personal attack. So let me put it this way, if you take some one telling you that you are wrong as a personal attack, well I have no power over that.

I never said you were lieing at any point. I said you were wrong. I did not pass any judgment upon you or your teachers as far as truthfulness. I simple said you where wrong. The RCC does NOT teach you have a second chance after death. This is a wrong statement. You made a false claim (unintentionally false) and I informed you that you were incorrect. That is not a personal attack.

I enjoy your posts and enjoy conversing with you. I enjoy opposing points of view. It challenges me and helps me grow.

So I will apologize if I have said anything that was taken as a personal attack because I never intended that. So I am sorry.

[Alejandro84]

The trials of fire that believers in Christ go through is defined in scripture as being manifold temptations and persecutions as 1 Peter 1:6-7 & 2 Timothy 3:12 says. There is no purging fire after a believer dies, the doctrine of Catholicism twists scripture and puts things out of context. Hebrews 7:25 says that Jesus saves to the uttermost and in another portion of scripture it says he by himself purged our sins. Purgatory is a mythological teaching that has been believed by Greeks and Romans and Egyptians for centuries concerning the afterlife, it is not scriptural based. And 1 Peter 1:6-7 proves it.

[Alejandro84]

There is no purging by fire for a believer after they have died, only when they are alive here on this side of eternity.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Alejandro84

[Fez]

Well I did look up what the Catholic Church says about Purgatory. And it was even posted in this thread.

Making a false claim is a form of bashing. So you are bashing the Catholic Church when you make false claims.

My wife was brought up a catholic in the most catholic country in the east. I have been there many times and interacted with her extended family and friends as one of the family.

 

OneLight is correct, and you are now hearing it from two former Catholics who chose to leave the religion and have far more experience and upfront knowledge of working Catholicism than do you.

 

Look up as much as you want to, but it is taught from the pulpit and in homes.

[OneLight]

Onelight I looked it up and found that my suspicions were correct. The RCC does does NOT teach that you have a second chance after death. Cause of the rules of this forum I won't post the entire paragraphs.

Paragraph 1021: repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death

Paragraph 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death,

That's only 2 paragraphs from that section that clearly states that there are NO second chances after death. You are judged immediately upon death.

As for insinuating that I personally attacked you is well I don't want to be accused of a personal attack. So let me put it this way, if you take some one telling you that you are wrong as a personal attack, well I have no power over that.

I never said you were lieing at any point. I said you were wrong. I did not pass any judgment upon you or your teachers as far as truthfulness. I simple said you where wrong. The RCC does NOT teach you have a second chance after death. This is a wrong statement. You made a false claim (unintentionally false) and I informed you that you were incorrect. That is not a personal attack.

I enjoy your posts and enjoy conversing with you. I enjoy opposing points of view. It challenges me and helps me grow.

So I will apologize if I have said anything that was taken as a personal attack because I never intended that. So I am sorry.

Now, in order to understand fully what the RCC means, research what their idea of salvation is. That is the key. For the RCC, as I had stated, they do not require anyone to be born again, only baptized. Knowing that their idea of salvation is off, so is their idea of purgatory.

Are you of the RCC faith or are you just arguing because your father is of the RCC faith?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Couple things I want to touch on.

Fez just cause something is taught from the pulpit and in homes doesn't mean the Church supports or stands by it. Because if I use your way of judging what a religion believes I challenge you to say that baptist hate war vets, homosexuals and all the other nonsense that the Westboro Baptist church aspouses. Because from their pulpit and in their homes the Westboro Baptist are some of the most hatefully people I have seen.

So Fez are Baptist hate full people?? That is what I see every time I see a Westboro baptist video.

Onelight to answer you. This has nothing to do with my fathers faith or him being Roman Catholic.

Regardless the topic of a discussion ( happens to be religion because this is a religious forum) I dislike wrong information being attributed to an opposing point of view.

Misrepresenting the others position to bolster yours (not you specifically. The royal you) is bad form. If your argument ( again not you specifically but people in General) can not stand on its own merits than one should reevaluate their position. I find the staunch anti catholic position here interesting. If they are so wrong than why fear what they say.

Protestants are so varied and so all over the map that I tread very lightly when speaking about their believe systems. I grew up in a home with a Catholic father and a Luthern mother from a VERY Luthern family. I've heard all the same agreements against the Roman Carholic church and have gone straight to the Roman Carholic Church to see what they have to say on the subject. I do not take my fathers or my mothers word for what the Catholic Church teaches.

I also do the same thing for Protestants. I don't take what Carholics have to say about protestans as being factual either. I have read up on the Luthern faith and Anglican faith. I am dating an evangelical girl right now so I have met with her pastor. I found your forum, and so I ask question and discusses things. Because I don't trust a third party telling me what evangelicala believe. I want them to tell me themselves.

To me that is a fair and dignified position.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Judas....

     I just happened to fall on this thread once again but I do believe that there are no accidents,,,,I landed on one of your posts that was addressed  to me,had I seen it prior to now I would have responded but it seems irrelevant now .....my post"saying does it really matter"was not addressed to you although it seems you took my words personally......anyone that knows me will surely tell you that I ALWAYS address who I am speaking to & I do not make vague insinuations......the reason I am writing to you now is because I really do not want you to feel as though you are under any kind of personal attack & I truly want you to KNOW that you are loved here,,,,,,I understand that you are trying to learn & seeking Gods truth but from experience I hope to encourage you to get nearer the Lord & well verses & familiar with His Word so that if your roots are firm & deep in Gods Timeless Truth you will easily recognize untruths,,,,,,,,

      You are telling people like One Light,that he is wrong,,,my friend,I ,like One Light was raised in the RCC & we surely know what is taught.........but what is most important is that you study the unadulterated Word of God FIRST,bask the Holy Spirit to lead you into all Truth,seek a close relationship with our Lord & then you can explore different denominations if you choose but to try (by your own intellect & understanding) & investigate other doctrines & traditions will only lead to doubt & confusion.....you are looking to PEOPLE to find out THEIR beliefs,seeking Truth?You say you came to this "religious forum".......Judas,God has lead you to this CHRISTIAN MINISTRY,let us rejoice together & give Him Glory,,,,because there is not one of my Brothers or Sisters here that will disagree with me that you should seek God in His Word for the Power of the Holy Spirit to get Wisdom & Understanding..........

     Christ in all of us,loves you & we are ALWAYS going to point to the ONE that can give you what you need,follow the footsteps of His flock & they will lead you to the Shepherds tent,welcome to the fold

                                                                                        With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Alejandro84]

Hi Judas, well I've read all that you've said, and I see a small issue with your notion on what the rcc defines as salvation , it says in para 1129 of the ccc that the sacraments of the new covenant are necessary for salvation. But the word of the oath promised unto Abraham is by Faith. As Galatians 3:16-24 says...those who are children of God are only children by Faith in Christ Jesus. The salvation ascribed under the teaching of Catholicism is different than the promises of Christ given in the scriptures.

And as one should know that if there are 100 verses that say one thing, and 1 verse that says something else, it must be that that verse must be viewed in the light of the other 100 with other referential scriptures that will further expound. When james says Faith without works is dead he is showing that there is hypocritical Faith, like that of the Pharisees, which say but do not do juxtaposed to the Faith which Christ gives which by him working in us are created unto good works.

Those good works are as mentioned in james 2 of loving thy neighbor or your enemy or anyone in need and not sacramental "grace"

Salvation is God doing the complete finished work then quickening you unto life, giving you the newness of life to walk in his light, and in doing so you love , and this is not of yourself, for it is God that works through you, as Christ said unless ye abide in me ye can do nothing.

James in no wise was talking about works being defined as partaking in the sacraments, so why does the ccc say that the sacraments are necessary for salvation, referencing people back to james 2 as a means of supporting that Faith alone is not what saves?

Something to think about