Definition of Faith

[Mister Bill]

Years ago someone posted this on a different site after someone demanded proof of God's existence. I liked it so much that I copied it so I could share it with others. - not only is there no proof, faith demands no proof. It is not science. Faith by nature and definition is destroyed by proof, for then it is something different: fact. So, in effect,you want a Christian to give you something he or she cannot if they are true to God or if they do, simply prove that they are not true to their God.-

[Bonky]

Years ago someone posted this on a different site after someone demanded proof of God's existence. I liked it so much that I copied it so I could share it with others. - not only is there no proof, faith demands no proof. It is not science. Faith by nature and definition is destroyed by proof, for then it is something different: fact. So, in effect,you want a Christian to give you something he or she cannot if they are true to God or if they do, simply prove that they are not true to their God.-

[i assume "proof" is used to mean "strong evidence in favor"] Well if this is an accurate definition of "faith" then I would wonder why an ultimately intelligent and benign being would even employ such a method to deal with it's creation. I don't understand why someone would want to deal with important matters via faith rather than facts and solid evidence. What is so marvelous about believing things despite not having solid evidence? Hasn't a lot of harm been inflicted by that very thing?

[pawz]

C.S Lewis ( a Christian Author) said  "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.”  You see the evidence of your faith in God in much the same way

[kwikphilly]

 

Psalm 19 King James Version (KJV)

19 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth His handywork.

I don't have to prove the existence of or defend my God Almighty,all one needs to do is look up!

 

Romans 1:20King James Version (KJV)

20 For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The Word of God says"they are without excuse"                 He does not hide Himself,He is there & evident for all to see.....                             Love,Kwik

[LuftWaffle]

Years ago someone posted this on a different site after someone demanded proof of God's existence. I liked it so much that I copied it so I could share it with others. - not only is there no proof, faith demands no proof. It is not science. Faith by nature and definition is destroyed by proof, for then it is something different: fact. So, in effect,you want a Christian to give you something he or she cannot if they are true to God or if they do, simply prove that they are not true to their God.-

 

Except that this is very wrong.

I'm assuming proof here refers to evidence. The notion that faith is destroyed by proof is a product of modern romanticism and anti-intellectualism in churches. Unfortunately many atheists also perpetuate this incorrect notion of faith.

Faith isn't something that exists in the absence of evidence and withers when exposed to it, but rather faith is an act of trust in what one has good evidence to believe is true.

 

Joh 20:31  But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Why would John take part in destroying "faith" by recording evidence that Christ was the Son of God? Why did Christ destroy "faith" by bodily rising from the dead and appearing to his disciples?

Ridiculous!

 

I'm sorry if I'm responding harshly, but this silly nonsense is precisely the reason why so many young people leave the church when church leaders, instead of giving answers for the hope that is in us, resort to anti-intellectualist "reasoning".

There is absolutely no scriptural reason to believe that "faith is destroyed by proof" and historically Christians have believed just the opposite.

[Guest Ehud]

Except that this is very wrong.

I'm assuming proof here refers to evidence. The notion that faith is destroyed by proof is a product of modern romanticism and anti-intellectualism in churches. Unfortunately many atheists also perpetuate this incorrect notion of faith.

Faith isn't something that exists in the absence of evidence and withers when exposed to it, but rather faith is an act of trust in what one has good evidence to believe is true.

 

I understand and partially agree with your critisisms. However, I think the original author of the quote in the OP is saying something that has more truth to it than you are giving credit (although, the wording could be a little bit misleading). Most importantly, by proof, I don't think he means evidence, because God certainly gave us evidence as you pointed out. I think he is using proof/prove in the mathematical sense, in that, given A = B and B = C, we can know, know, know that A = C. I would never say, I believe A = C, because when you have proof in this sense there is no place for faith.

 

I am of the opinion that you cannot prove the existence of the Bibilical God. If he really wanted to be proved to the world He certainly could do that by pulling back the supernatural veil and revealing Himself. Interestingly, He did just that in times past, but at least for our day and age we're told that "without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe (not know) that he is" (Heb. 11:6). As I see it, God has provided us with plenty of evidence to draw us to Himself, but has left it just short of proving Himself. Then comes our faith, or as you put it, the "act of trust[ing] in what one has good evidence to believe is true." The evidence is what gives us reasonable faith as opposed to blind faith.

 

You're absolutely right about the danger of anti-intellectualism in Christianity. We should avoid it as it directly contradicts our responsibility as Christians (I Peter 3:15). I would just caution all of us to not go to the other extreme and pretend to know everything that in fact we are just supposed to believe.

 

"Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness," now that's mountain moving faith!

 

Hold the Fort,

Ehud

Edited September 19, 2014 by Ehud

[Bonky]

I think the reason why we have word [in a religious context] like 'faith' is to convey the trust one might have in something that they often times can't show to someone else. So for example, I can share the experience [evidence] of seeing the sunset or sunrise with anyone I want. Can we do the same with 'faith' in prayer or 'faith' that a spirit being is interacting with one's life? There are all kinds of distinct views on the supernatural and a supposed afterlife. The reason these [often times conflicting] views can be held is because they aren't able to show concrete evidence one way or the other. We don't see this same behavior with the sunrise, we can all objectively see it.

[Fez]

 

Except that this is very wrong.

I'm assuming proof here refers to evidence. The notion that faith is destroyed by proof is a product of modern romanticism and anti-intellectualism in churches. Unfortunately many atheists also perpetuate this incorrect notion of faith.

Faith isn't something that exists in the absence of evidence and withers when exposed to it, but rather faith is an act of trust in what one has good evidence to believe is true.

 

I understand and partially agree with your critisisms. However, I think the original author of the quote in the OP is saying something that has more truth to it than you are giving credit (although, the wording could be a little bit misleading). Most importantly, by proof, I don't think he means evidence, because God certainly gave us evidence as you pointed out. I think he is using proof/prove in the mathematical sense, in that, given A = B and B = C, we can know, know, know that A = C. I would never say, I believe A = C, because when you have proof in this sense there is no place for faith.

 

I am of the opinion that you cannot prove the existence of the Bibilical God. If he really wanted to be proved to the world He certainly could do that by pulling back the supernatural veil and revealing Himself. Interestingly, He did just that in times past, but at least for our day and age we're told that "without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe (not know) that he is" (Heb. 11:6). As I see it, God has provided us with plenty of evidence to draw us to Himself, but has left it just short of proving Himself. Then comes our faith, or as you put it, the "act of trust[ing] in what one has good evidence to believe is true." The evidence is what gives us reasonable faith as opposed to blind faith.

 

You're absolutely right about the danger of anti-intellectualism in Christianity. We should avoid it as it directly contradicts our responsibility as Christians (I Peter 3:15). I would just caution all of us to not go to the other extreme and pretend to know everything that in fact we are just supposed to believe.

 

"Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness," now that's mountain moving faith!

 

Hold the Fort,

Ehud

 

 

 

Except that this is very wrong.

I'm assuming proof here refers to evidence. The notion that faith is destroyed by proof is a product of modern romanticism and anti-intellectualism in churches. Unfortunately many atheists also perpetuate this incorrect notion of faith.

Faith isn't something that exists in the absence of evidence and withers when exposed to it, but rather faith is an act of trust in what one has good evidence to believe is true.

 

I understand and partially agree with your critisisms. However, I think the original author of the quote in the OP is saying something that has more truth to it than you are giving credit (although, the wording could be a little bit misleading). Most importantly, by proof, I don't think he means evidence, because God certainly gave us evidence as you pointed out. I think he is using proof/prove in the mathematical sense, in that, given A = B and B = C, we can know, know, know that A = C. I would never say, I believe A = C, because when you have proof in this sense there is no place for faith.

 

I am of the opinion that you cannot prove the existence of the Bibilical God. If he really wanted to be proved to the world He certainly could do that by pulling back the supernatural veil and revealing Himself. Interestingly, He did just that in times past, but at least for our day and age we're told that "without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe (not know) that he is" (Heb. 11:6). As I see it, God has provided us with plenty of evidence to draw us to Himself, but has left it just short of proving Himself. Then comes our faith, or as you put it, the "act of trust[ing] in what one has good evidence to believe is true." The evidence is what gives us reasonable faith as opposed to blind faith.

 

You're absolutely right about the danger of anti-intellectualism in Christianity. We should avoid it as it directly contradicts our responsibility as Christians (I Peter 3:15). I would just caution all of us to not go to the other extreme and pretend to know everything that in fact we are just supposed to believe.

 

"Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness," now that's mountain moving faith!

 

Hold the Fort,

Ehud

 

I am of the opinion that you cannot prove the existence of the Bibilical God.

 

Then who am I speaking to almost constantly? Who is answering my prayer, in an awesome, (and miraculous way last week ). Who is answering with such exquisite timing?

 

Who is sending me (last Sunday), a direct and simple answer within a minute of my prayers?

 

What more proof of existence of God do I need?

 

A photograph? A written plan for my life and that of the world? (that I already have in the Bible, which alone is proof enough).

[Bonky]

Then who am I speaking to almost constantly? Who is answering my prayer, in an awesome, (and miraculous way last week ). Who is answering with such exquisite timing?

 

Who is sending me (last Sunday), a direct and simple answer within a minute of my prayers?

 

What more proof of existence of God do I need?

 

A photograph? A written plan for my life and that of the world? (that I already have in the Bible, which alone is proof enough).

Just my 2 cents on your post for what it's worth. What do you conclude if your prayer doesn't get answered as you hoped? If you simply conclude "it was God's will", then you are utilizing an interpretation of daily life that where you can't possibly be wrong. For me, that would be a bit troublesome.

[Guest]

Proof

 

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

 

Text

 

But it is the spirit in a person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding. Job 32:8 (NIV)

 

~

 

Most importantly, by proof, I don't think he means evidence,

 

because God certainly gave us evidence as you pointed out.

 

I think he is using proof/prove in the mathematical sense,

 

in that, given A = B and B = C,

 

we can know, know, know that A = C.

 

I would never say, I believe A = C, because when you have proof in this sense there is no place for faith.

 

 

To Know That A = B

 

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

 

And B = C

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

One Needs But To Point Their Heart To The Proof Text

 

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

 

And To Receive

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

It

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8