Definition of Faith

[Bonky]

The seriel killers demonstrated by those acts that the Living God was not operative in their lives. I am not talking about appearances of being nice or pleasant.. Jesus said you will know them by their fruit--what their lives produce. Killing is bad fruit. This kind of proof is objective. Some kinds are subjective such as inward peace. This caused a man to stop beating his wife and changed him into a gentle man. That is objective. Feeling love and kindness for another is subjective. The demonstration of love and kindness is objective. That is why it is not pie in the sky. Some changes in behavior don't happen overnight but some do. Many people become christians because of the changes in behavior they have seen in a close friend. I have 2 close childhood friends who claim that this is the case because of me, although I was unaware of it until recent years. I have 2 sons who are christians today because of the changes they saw in their father. A spiritualist who hated Christians suddenly wants to live with them, attend church every sunday, while sitting in a pew asks one of them how to receive Christ, does so and suddenly loves Christians and stops committing adultry. She prays alloud at the dinner table and has a total transformation of subjective attitudes and objective habits.

But people who don't want to believe in Christ will not accept these as demonstration of their faith, nor will the believe a physical miracle when one occurs before their eyes. They make excuses not to believe because they don't want to be held accountable for their sins. That, my friend, is pie in the sky wishful thinking---to deny the Living God.

I guess that's what I mean, I don't find it very useful to say "You will know them by their fruit" when we just agreed that a serial killer could be perceived as a good Christian....until we find out the person murdered people. I think the statement over simplifies what we see in the world. There have been pastors [pastor Ted Haggard] who were stalwarts of the Christian church who were later caught taking drugs in a bathroom with a male prostitute. Sure, after this was found out people realized he wasn't as clean a guy as they thought, but before he was caught....they were none the wiser. So I guess I don't understand how this statement from Christ is useful.

I don't know what you mean by not wanting to be held accountable for sins. I don't see how praying for forgiveness is all that hard and being "held accountable" in any harsh way. I have no issue proclaiming the existence of any being, the truth is the truth, there is no use in denying it.

[Guest]

I don't know what you mean by not wanting to be held accountable for sins....

 

I don't see how praying for forgiveness is all that hard and being "held accountable" in any harsh way....

 

I have no issue proclaiming the existence of any being....

 

the truth is the truth, there is no use in denying it....

 

 

Beloved, You Can Not Speak The Truth

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

 

Unless First God Speaks To You

 

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

And He Does, So What's

 

“But I tell you, in this you are not right, for God is greater than any mortal.

 

Why do you complain to him that he responds to no one’s words?

 

For God does speak—now one way, now another— though no one perceives it.

 

In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on people as they slumber in their beds,

 

he may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings,

 

to turn them from wrongdoing and keep them from pride,

 

to preserve them from the pit, their lives from perishing by the sword. Job 33:12-18 (NIV)

 

The Beef?

 

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

 

Of sin, because they believe not on me; John 16:7-9

 

Sin~!

[Willa]

Most people are afraid of death.  Many are so afraid that even the sight of a cemetery is a terrifying reminder.  They may also hate the sight of a church for much the same reason.  

When I worked in the hospitals I saw people in horrendous pain and near death who were most concerned about those they were leaving behind,  They comforted and encouraged  all who came into their room.  The pain of having their bowels protruding from cancerous open wounds was unthinkable but they refused pain meds because they still wanted to make a difference in other peoples lives and to share the Gospel.

 

There was the 4 year old boy who had an out of body experience.  He saw himself leave, drawn into the bright light, and safe with Jesus.  It was such a wonderful place that he did not want to go back to his family but he did.  Thereafter he begged his family to let him go be with Jesus and not have him resuscitated again.  I knew him and I know the family today.  Meanwhile he asked every nurse who came to his bedside "Do you know Jesus?   But do you REALLY know Him."   Davey was talking about having a vital relationship with the Risen Lord--a two way relationship.  No belief in Santa Claus would give a 4 year old child that kind of faith.  No child has ever to my knowledge gone in the spirit to be with Santa Clause.  Whether anyone else is convinced, he was convinced.   Wishful thinking does not cause a 4 year old to have such confidence about where he will go that he wanted to leave the only security, love and life he had ever known.  Faith is the confidence of things unseen.  It is born out of an intimate relationship with God and an intimate understanding of His Character.  

 

My husband was in complete denial that he would be a father soon.  He could see my swollen belly, feel the pressure of a kick when his hand was on it, see it move, see the ultrasound image, but that was not reality to him tell he had the baby in his arms.  Then, as ugly as that 5 pound baby was, he knew he was a dad.  Many people see the affect of God on other people, see their demeanors change and their personalties change, they even see changes in their values and actions.  Quite often that is enough to convince them and they ask for what that person has.  But until the Spirit of the Risen Christ dwells in them, and grows in them, they don't really understand and form a vital relationship with God.  That relationship is what makes them a Christian.