The Seven Seals

[Salty]

 

 

Yes, that reveals those seven angels were given both the seven trumpets and seven vials at the same time, and then went out. The seventh seal with silence for a half hour I interpret as a pause, to separate the vision of the seals from these events you quoted, because the events of the sixth seal include the time of God's wrath.

 

Yes quite possible (the half hour silence) .. or maybe even something to do with the sealing of the 144 000 perhaps!!

 

Very interesting nevertheless.

 

Hi Serving

 

It's not only a possibility but an absolute in my opinion if we put the pieces of the puzzle carefully together where they should fit.

The half hour of silence in heaven does not mean nothing is happening, but the opposite, something BIG is happening, or else it would not be mentioned.

 

The half hour of silence happens before the 7 trumpets/vials blow.

And what happens just before this?

The 144,000 are sealed.

 

 Revelation 7:1   And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

 

This is why the four angels are told to hold back, because it's time, they are standing there ready but told just wait a little longer;

Revelation 7:3   Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

 

After this, it's all go.  The Mark of the beast will be issued, and Babylon will receive the plagues of the 7 angels.

There are only 144,000 who are sealed.  Not many.

 

And by the time we get to the 5th trumpet, those sealed ones (only 144,000)  are still here;

 Revelation 9:4   And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

 

Only 144,000 are sealed remember.  Again, not many.

 

It looks like the 144,000 are not going to be affected by the plagues, nor killed during the beheading phase.  It will be like it was in the "passover".  The angels will just pass over them.

But there are ONLY 144,000, who follow the lamb wheresoever he goes in the last generation,... and we know the rest of the christians will be persecuted before the 1st trumpet even blows.

 

So two groups of christians here.  One big group and one very very small.

 

I would like to go into more detail with this one later, because there is something I have found very interesting here with something else, but visitors are on their way so I must go.

 

God bless.

 

 

I disagree that only those 144,000 are sealed. Starting in the Rev.7:9 verse about the "great multitude", they are shown to John and he is asked "whence came they?", and "what are these arrayed in white robes?" He is told they washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb (Jesus), which means they suffered persecution coming out of great tribulation, meaning the "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus forewarned us about. Then they are shown before the throne of God, serving Him days and night, which means what... specific timing? None of those in Christ will be doing that serving before God's throne until the Millennial time, not tribulation time.

 

Thusly, the way those two groups are being shown, believing Israelites on Christ Jesus compared to believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus, they both... together... represent His Church still on earth for the tribulation. The only difference is that the "great multitude" John is being shown in a later time after the tribulation and into the Millennium. Only believers that fall away from Christ during the tribulation will not suffer persecution being deceived and not... sealed, thus not washing their robes in the Blood of The Lamb.

[Salty]

Also, a huge contradiction is created if we try to force an idea like the seven trumpets don't sound until after the seventh seal, because the sixth seal is showing the events of the Day of The Lord with God's cup of wrath upon the wicked. The order John was given by vision to see the seals, trumpets, and vials, and how he wrote them down, does not always stricklty follow their event order.

[Sister]

I disagree that only those 144,000 are sealed. Starting in the Rev.7:9 verse about the "great multitude", they are shown to John and he is asked "whence came they?", and "what are these arrayed in white robes?" He is told they washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb (Jesus), which means they suffered persecution coming out of great tribulation, meaning the "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus forewarned us about. Then they are shown before the throne of God, serving Him days and night, which means what... specific timing? None of those in Christ will be doing that serving before God's throne until the Millennial time, not tribulation time.

 

Hi Salty

 

Rev 7:1 onwards speaks about the sealing of the 144,000 then finishes at verse 8.

 

It's no longer referring to the 144,000 because;

 

Revelation 7:9   After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

After that vision of the sealing of the 144,000, which are a small number, and clearly numbered (144,000), ...just the vision of the 144,000 being SEALED, no details yet, except the tribes they are numbered from,

.......THEN John is shown a large group which cannot be numbered standing before the lamb.  Obviously this is the majority of saints resurrected, and not that small minority of the 144,000 which are numbered.

 

Back to that large group, the majority;

 Revelation 7:13   And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

 Revelation 7:14   And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

These he is speaking of is the majority of Christians resurrected.  It's not speaking of the 144,000.  These would include the saints from Jesus time also, as they also faced great tribulation in their day - right up to the saints of the last days.  The whole lot combined into one great big group. No man could number this group, it is huge, and not the same as the other group.

 

Those from the past were given white robes also - it means when they are resurrected, they are in fine linen, clean and washed.  Their names reserved in heaven, from the lambs book of life.

 

The 5th Seal

Revelation 6:10   And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Revelation 6:11   And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

 

  Revelation 7:15   Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
  Revelation 7:16   They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
  Revelation 7:17   For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

 

Shouldn't they have already been fed? 

 

Revelation 12:11   And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

Just an example of those who will overcome.  Ok, they received their white robes, and passed the test because of faith, performed the ultimate sacrifice.....

 

...But if the lamb SHALL FEED THEM after their death, then to me it screams that something is lacking here.  I assume they had the milk, but not the solids.  They were revealed part of the kingdom, but not the whole kingdom.  They were given a certain measure, but not a full measure....or they were not part of the last generation who would stand out in God's eyes, but died prior.

 

 

Now lets go to the 144,000 small group again. 

Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

Where are the rest of the saints?  They are not standing with Christ ...YET...

 

Revelation 14:3   And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

 

No man could learn that song, but the 144,000.  What about the rest of the christians?  They only learn it AFTER they are resurrected;

 

Revelation 7:17   For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Shall feed them.  Not already fed them.

 

back to the 144,000;

Revelation 14:4   These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

 

"Firstfruits" - the First of the fruits. 

..........Two groups.  144,000 Firstfruits, and the majority who are not numbered with the 144,000.

............144,000 standing on Mt Zion with Christ, and the Majority who are not there yet.....
  

Revelation 14:5   And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

Could these "first-fruits" be the FIRST of something? 

A separate small group who followed the lamb withersoever he goeth,

and singing a song that no-one else knows but them...

....could this mean something?  I say it means something BIG.  Could this song they sing be the FULL TRUTH?

Is it possible these 144,000 who are alive in THE LAST DAYS have been FED already by the lamb?

 

Hopefully you can see that they have been separated from the large group?

...and they are SEALED just before the wrath of God starts,

and because of this scripture, I can see that they are ALIVE during the wrath.

 

 

Revelation 9:4   And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

 

Which can only mean, ...DON'T HURT the men which DO have the seal of God in their FOREHEADS, because they are not dead like the rest, but ALIVE.  And the wrath starts after the Mark is issued, which can only mean that the majority of saints are persecuted and have joined their brethren.

 

Revelation 7:3   Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:4   And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

[Sister]

I just want to state that I do not believe that the 144,000 are believing Israelites only.

Concerning the resurrection, Christ said there is no difference between Jew or Greek.

Whoever follows Christ, and puts in the hard work to repent, and feed on his flesh (feed on the scriptures) and endures to the end gets the same reward.

 

We worship the same God who is the God of Israel.

Israel were promised an inheritance, but were cut off.

The gentiles are grafted on to the tree now, and get a share in that same inheritance promised to them.

When the fulness of the gentiles come in, then trouble.  The door of the ark is closed for a while.

Israel will be grafted back on to the same tree at Christ's appearing as they are the original branches.

 

There are no tribes today. 

But the old tribes will be raised from the dead as spoken in Ezekiel, and a remnant who survived Armageddon will be brought back into the 1000 year kingdom as promised (according to the election)

These tribes, and remnants will have to be fed Christ just like we have to now.

No man can come to God unless they go through Christ. 

It will be the same for them, and because God is a God of order, he will group them and set kings and ministers over them.

They will learn true doctrine, and one can only come to God through his Word. 

Christ is the Word of God.

 

The main purpose for the millennium is for Israel's healing, and God will be glorified through them as a testimony to all the nations that God truly loves them and is the living God.

They will be so full of the truth, and being taught by Christ, they will have no room to teach or learn error like we have today.

Because of them, the nations also get a second chance.

It's going to be an amazing time for not only Israel but the rest of the world's offspring during that 1000 years.

 

I hope with all my heart, that I am counted worthy enough to witness this when the time comes.

I don't know why but I have a deep love for Israel, especially the Israel to come. Even knowing about all her history and past mistakes.

I know the Lord loves Israel very much to have such mercy on her and I want to be there to see her joy when the Lord shows compassion and turns her into a model nation again.. 

 

 

Jeremiah 31:8   Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.

 

Jeremiah 31:9   They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

 

Jeremiah 31:16   Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.

(the land of the enemy is "death."  Death is the last enemy that will be destroyed.  The tribes of Israel will be raised from the dead physically speaking  and brought into the kingdom during the 1000 years.   see Ezekiel 37)

 

Zechariah 12:10   And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

 

Isaiah 9:16   For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

 

Isaiah 14:1   For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Isaiah 14:2   And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

 Isaiah 14:3   And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

 

Isaiah 25:8   He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

 

Isaiah 42:16   And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

 

Isaiah 49:10   They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

 

Isaiah 51:22   Thus saith thy Lord the LORD, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:

[Serving]

Hi Sister, 

 

Good posts .. and I agree too.

 

 

Rev 7:1 onwards speaks about the sealing of the 144,000 then finishes at verse 8.

It's no longer referring to the 144,000 because;

Revelation 7:9   After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

After that vision of the sealing of the 144,000, which are a small number, and clearly numbered (144,000), ...just the vision of the 144,000 being SEALED, no details yet, except the tribes they are numbered from,

.......THEN John is shown a large group which cannot be numbered standing before the lamb.  Obviously this is the majority of saints resurrected, and not that small minority of the 144,000 which are numbered.

 

 

I see the same .. 

 

Concerning "After this I beheld": "After this" = vision completed .. "I beheld" = now comes the next vision / subject .. clearly a difference .. agreed. 

 

Concerning "numbering": 144 000 = numbered .. "no man could number" = unknown .. another stark difference .. agreed.

 

 

Back to that large group, the majority;

Revelation 7:13   And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Revelation 7:14   And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

These he is speaking of is the majority of Christians resurrected.  It's not speaking of the 144,000.  These would include the saints from Jesus time also, as they also faced great tribulation in their day - right up to the saints of the last days.  The whole lot combined into one great big group. No man could number this group, it is huge, and not the same as the other group.

 

 

Agreed also since Christ promised those Christians of antiquity that they too would be rewarded at his 2nd coming, therefore they too must be amongst that multitude in the above as would be all generations of Christians who likewise had been given the same promise / assurance .. and the promise is assured .. not forgetting that God generalizes a lot.

 

 

Those from the past were given white robes also - it means when they are resurrected, they are in fine linen, clean and washed.  Their names reserved in heaven, from the lambs book of life.

The 5th Seal

Revelation 6:10   And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Revelation 6:11   And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

 

Yes .. In God's eyes they are metaphorically  already in white robes as though it were already done since God already knows that He will resurrect them .. "I declare the end at the beginning" justifies this line of discernment.

 

Pointless to give a dead person a white robe or anything else for that matter until s/he is raised, "for the dead know nothing" declarations cannot be broken .. God is merely projecting.

 

 

Revelation 7:15   Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Revelation 7:16   They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Revelation 7:17   For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

 

Shouldn't they have already been fed?

 

 

AGREED.

 

"Living fountains of waters" is a stand out to me  .. because even though this large group is resurrected, this group still needs to be taught pure truth ("feed them") to receive from the fountains (angels / teachers) the waters (truth residing within the spirit that is found within the doctrine of Christ .. hence: "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life")  so they can be enabled to fulfil their coming duty as priests during the millennium.  

 

God is the Fountain of living waters .. but these above are led to fountains of living waters .. that is a big difference to me.

 

 

Revelation 12:11   And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

Just an example of those who will overcome.  Ok, they received their white robes, and passed the test because of faith, performed the ultimate sacrifice.....

 

...But if the lamb SHALL FEED THEM after their death, then to me it screams that something is lacking here.  I assume they had the milk, but not the solids.  They were revealed part of the kingdom, but not the whole kingdom.  They were given a certain measure, but not a full measure....or they were not part of the last generation who would stand out in God's eyes, but died prior.

 

 

To me, their robes were dirty from the contaminated doctrines & traditions within them .. once Christ sorts them out at last .. all the saints will finally see eye to eye (doctrinally).

 

 

Now lets go to the 144,000 small group again.

 

Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

Where are the rest of the saints?  They are not standing with Christ ...YET...

 

Revelation 14:3   And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

 

No man could learn that song, but the 144,000.  What about the rest of the christians?  They only learn it AFTER they are resurrected;

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

back to the 144,000;

Revelation 14:4   These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

"Firstfruits" - the First of the fruits.

..........Two groups.  144,000 Firstfruits, and the majority who are not numbered with the 144,000.

............144,000 standing on Mt Zion with Christ, and the Majority who are not there yet.....
 Revelation 14:5   And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

Could these "first-fruits" be the FIRST of something?

A separate small group who followed the lamb withersoever he goeth,

and singing a song that no-one else knows but them...

....could this mean something?  I say it means something BIG.  Could this song they sing be the FULL TRUTH?

Is it possible these 144,000 who are alive in THE LAST DAYS have been FED already by the lamb?

Hopefully you can see that they have been separated from the large group?

...and they are SEALED just before the wrath of God starts,

and because of this scripture, I can see that they are ALIVE during the wrath.

Revelation 9:4   And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Which can only mean, ...DON'T HURT the men which DO have the seal of God in their FOREHEADS, because they are not dead like the rest, but ALIVE.  And the wrath starts after the Mark is issued, which can only mean that the majority of saints are persecuted and have joined their brethren.

Revelation 7:3   Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:4   And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

 

 

Totally agree.

 

Nicely done IMO.

 

Blessings.

[Salty]

 

I disagree that only those 144,000 are sealed. Starting in the Rev.7:9 verse about the "great multitude", they are shown to John and he is asked "whence came they?", and "what are these arrayed in white robes?" He is told they washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb (Jesus), which means they suffered persecution coming out of great tribulation, meaning the "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus forewarned us about. Then they are shown before the throne of God, serving Him days and night, which means what... specific timing? None of those in Christ will be doing that serving before God's throne until the Millennial time, not tribulation time.

 

Hi Salty

 

Rev 7:1 onwards speaks about the sealing of the 144,000 then finishes at verse 8.

 

It's no longer referring to the 144,000 because;

 

Revelation 7:9   After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

After that vision of the sealing of the 144,000, which are a small number, and clearly numbered (144,000), ...just the vision of the 144,000 being SEALED, no details yet, except the tribes they are numbered from,

.......THEN John is shown a large group which cannot be numbered standing before the lamb.  Obviously this is the majority of saints resurrected, and not that small minority of the 144,000 which are numbered.

 

Back to that large group, the majority;

 Revelation 7:13   And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

 Revelation 7:14   And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

These he is speaking of is the majority of Christians resurrected.  It's not speaking of the 144,000.  These would include the saints from Jesus time also, as they also faced great tribulation in their day - right up to the saints of the last days.  The whole lot combined into one great big group. No man could number this group, it is huge, and not the same as the other group.

 

Those from the past were given white robes also - it means when they are resurrected, they are in fine linen, clean and washed.  Their names reserved in heaven, from the lambs book of life.

 

The 5th Seal

Revelation 6:10   And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 6:11   And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

 

  Revelation 7:15   Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

  Revelation 7:16   They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

  Revelation 7:17   For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

 

Shouldn't they have already been fed? 

 

Revelation 12:11   And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

Just an example of those who will overcome.  Ok, they received their white robes, and passed the test because of faith, performed the ultimate sacrifice.....

 

...But if the lamb SHALL FEED THEM after their death, then to me it screams that something is lacking here.  I assume they had the milk, but not the solids.  They were revealed part of the kingdom, but not the whole kingdom.  They were given a certain measure, but not a full measure....or they were not part of the last generation who would stand out in God's eyes, but died prior.

 

 

Now lets go to the 144,000 small group again. 

Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

Where are the rest of the saints?  They are not standing with Christ ...YET...

 

Revelation 14:3   And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

 

No man could learn that song, but the 144,000.  What about the rest of the christians?  They only learn it AFTER they are resurrected;

 

Revelation 7:17   For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Shall feed them.  Not already fed them.

 

back to the 144,000;

Revelation 14:4   These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

 

"Firstfruits" - the First of the fruits. 

..........Two groups.  144,000 Firstfruits, and the majority who are not numbered with the 144,000.

............144,000 standing on Mt Zion with Christ, and the Majority who are not there yet.....

  

Revelation 14:5   And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

Could these "first-fruits" be the FIRST of something? 

A separate small group who followed the lamb withersoever he goeth,

and singing a song that no-one else knows but them...

....could this mean something?  I say it means something BIG.  Could this song they sing be the FULL TRUTH?

Is it possible these 144,000 who are alive in THE LAST DAYS have been FED already by the lamb?

 

Hopefully you can see that they have been separated from the large group?

...and they are SEALED just before the wrath of God starts,

and because of this scripture, I can see that they are ALIVE during the wrath.

 

 

Revelation 9:4   And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

 

Which can only mean, ...DON'T HURT the men which DO have the seal of God in their FOREHEADS, because they are not dead like the rest, but ALIVE.  And the wrath starts after the Mark is issued, which can only mean that the majority of saints are persecuted and have joined their brethren.

 

Revelation 7:3   Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:4   And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

 

 

One of the things you should have done, was to stay within the Rev.7 chapter to include those verses after Rev.7:9. You should be able to notice events they're given with linked to the time of Christ's future Millennial reign (i.e., the "thousand years" of Rev.20).

 

What that means is John was given to see that vision of the "great multitude" in a time after... Christ's coming and after the tribulation. It states they are serving God at His throne, in His temple day and night, and that He dwells among them, and then Rev.7:16-17 are definitely time markers for after the end of this world. So we are being given a future-forward look into Christ's Millennial timing. It does not... mean Christ came to rapture His Church out prior to the tribulation, there is no Scripture pointer there to that idea at all, it has to be assumed, and thus added, which we are not to do.

 

Sorry, but we cannot study our Lord's Book of Revelation like a school book where the subjects are designed to flow sequentially. Revelation's timelines jump around a lot just as all the OT Books of God's prophets do. We have to pay special attention to each event John was shown, and determine its timelines.

 

On a deeper note about the 144,000:

 

If you know your Old Testament history, then you should know about God splitting old Israel into two separate kingdoms His Word calls 'houses'. He separated the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi into their own kingdom, and then the majority of the rest of the ten tribes into their own kingdom. Then He scattered the ten tribes out of the holy land first, never to return as a people to this day. Then He sent Judah, Benjamin, and Levi captive to Babylon for 70 years with only a small remant of them returning to Jerusalem, and the rest scattered to the nations like the ten tribes were.

 

So only 3 tribes in the 144,00 list actually are represented by Judah, Benjamin, and Levi ("house of Judah" per God's Word). The rest are all ten lost tribe Israelites scattered among the nations. In Romans 9 when Paul preached to both Roman Israelites and Roman Gentiles, he quoted prophecy from Hosea about a people that God said are not My people (lo-ami) becoming My peoplee (Ami), as it is about His Salvation through His Son, and thus Christ's Church. So... that means there is beyond a doubt an enumeral amount of Israelites that have believed on Christ Jesus that are counted in His Church. That is who those 144,000 represent, i.e., believers on Christ Jesus, not unbelievers.

 

The reason why we can know this, is by Christ's Message at the start of that Rev.7 chapter about the 'sealing'. It certainly is not about the unbelievers, for they are not sealed with God's seal. The four angels are told to hold back the four winds until God's servants are 'sealed' (Rev.7:3). So that Message is what we are to pick up on right off the bat at the start of that Chapter and know to apply it to all being spoken of there in Rev.7, both that 144,000 and... the "great multitude", for together they represent Christ's Church as one body. And per Rev.7:14 with us being told the great multitude "came out of great tribulation" and are with Christ, we well know that means they had to be 'sealed' too with God's sealing in the forehead.

[Salty]

I just want to state that I do not believe that the 144,000 are believing Israelites only.

Concerning the resurrection, Christ said there is no difference between Jew or Greek.

Whoever follows Christ, and puts in the hard work to repent, and feed on his flesh (feed on the scriptures) and endures to the end gets the same reward.

 

We worship the same God who is the God of Israel.

Israel were promised an inheritance, but were cut off.

The gentiles are grafted on to the tree now, and get a share in that same inheritance promised to them.

When the fulness of the gentiles come in, then trouble.  The door of the ark is closed for a while.

Israel will be grafted back on to the same tree at Christ's appearing as they are the original branches.

 

There are no tribes today. 

But the old tribes will be raised from the dead as spoken in Ezekiel, and a remnant who survived Armageddon will be brought back into the 1000 year kingdom as promised (according to the election)

These tribes, and remnants will have to be fed Christ just like we have to now.

No man can come to God unless they go through Christ. 

It will be the same for them, and because God is a God of order, he will group them and set kings and ministers over them.

They will learn true doctrine, and one can only come to God through his Word. 

Christ is the Word of God.

 

The main purpose for the millennium is for Israel's healing, and God will be glorified through them as a testimony to all the nations that God truly loves them and is the living God.

They will be so full of the truth, and being taught by Christ, they will have no room to teach or learn error like we have today.

Because of them, the nations also get a second chance.

It's going to be an amazing time for not only Israel but the rest of the world's offspring during that 1000 years.

 

I hope with all my heart, that I am counted worthy enough to witness this when the time comes.

I don't know why but I have a deep love for Israel, especially the Israel to come. Even knowing about all her history and past mistakes.

I know the Lord loves Israel very much to have such mercy on her and I want to be there to see her joy when the Lord shows compassion and turns her into a model nation again.. 

 

 

Jeremiah 31:8   Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.

 

Jeremiah 31:9   They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

 

Jeremiah 31:16   Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.

(the land of the enemy is "death."  Death is the last enemy that will be destroyed.  The tribes of Israel will be raised from the dead physically speaking  and brought into the kingdom during the 1000 years.   see Ezekiel 37)

 

Zechariah 12:10   And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

 

Isaiah 9:16   For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

 

Isaiah 14:1   For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Isaiah 14:2   And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

 Isaiah 14:3   And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

 

Isaiah 25:8   He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

 

Isaiah 42:16   And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

 

Isaiah 49:10   They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

 

Isaiah 51:22   Thus saith thy Lord the LORD, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:

 

It sadens my heart to know that you've been taught to think that God has lost His people which He did foreknow, i.e., Israel.

 

If the truth were really known, today there's probably more Israelite descendents within Christ's Church than anyone other peoples. The Jews only represent one third of total Israelites, because the Jews are descended from only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi per God's Word (and certain small remnants of the other tribes that left Jeroboam's kingdom when he setup golden calf idol worship in the northern kingdom of Israel). A good number of Jewish Israelites are also members in Christ's Body today.

 

So where's all this stuff about no tribes anymore? That's not what God showed in His Word, for in Amos 9 He said He will sift the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) like corn through a sieve, and not the least grain will fall upon the earth. God knows where He scattered the majority of Israel, the ten lost tribe Israelites, which under Ephraim He promised would become "a multitude of nations" (Gen.48).

 

I would be warey of men who try to slam-dunk God's people whom He foreknew just to make their doctrines of men sound more plausable.

[Sister]

 

 

 

I disagree that only those 144,000 are sealed. Starting in the Rev.7:9 verse about the "great multitude", they are shown to John and he is asked "whence came they?", and "what are these arrayed in white robes?" He is told they washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb (Jesus), which means they suffered persecution coming out of great tribulation, meaning the "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus forewarned us about. Then they are shown before the throne of God, serving Him days and night, which means what... specific timing? None of those in Christ will be doing that serving before God's throne until the Millennial time, not tribulation time.

Hi Salty

My response was to this statement you made.  You disagreed that only the 144,000 were sealed..... is that correct?

You gave me Rev 7:9 as a reference showing the whole multitude which is not the same group. So are you implying that all of the saints are sealed?  I know they are saved and are of the resurrection, but the scriptures say only 144,000 are sealed during a certain point of time, which happens to be in the last days, .....and they are sealed for a reason.

 

We know there are more than 144,000 Christians in the last days who will go through tribulation, and we are preparing for hard times to be strong when the time comes.

 

But, the 144,000 are sealed before the wrath of God starts.  Just before the trumpets blow.

Therefore they are alive when sealed.  This is my point, and they are a small minority.

I did not say they are raptured, or taken up anywhere, but remain on this earth during the tribulation period.

They are protected from harm, it appears, because the clue is given when the 5th angel sounds. They are still here.

[Sister]

It sadens my heart to know that you've been taught to think that God has lost His people which He did foreknow, i.e., Israel.

Salty

 

Don't be too sad, because Israel has a happy ending.

Everything that happens in between is learning process for them and for us.

 

If the truth were really known, today there's probably more Israelite descendents within Christ's Church than anyone other peoples.

 

 

So you are saying that the majority of Christians are not really gentiles but Israel?

......Or are you saying that Israel were blinded so Israel can come in?

 

Romans 11:25   For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

John 12:40   He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

John 12:41   These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

John 12:42   Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

John 12:43   For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

 

Isaiah 9:16   For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

 

Would this be an offence to print these scriptures?

Would it be an offence to say that they will be healed during the millennium, and that the end result will be spectacular for them?

Are you offended in this?...the way God has designed and planned it all?

I say God knows what he's doing and his plan is perfect.

 

Jews only represent one third of total Israelites, because the Jews are descended from only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi per God's Word (and certain small remnants of the other tribes that left Jeroboam's kingdom when he setup golden calf idol worship in the northern kingdom of Israel). A good number of Jewish Israelites are also members in Christ's Body today.

 

 

During the millennium, the whole house of Israel will be restored.

 

 Ezekiel 36:10   And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

[Sister]

Salty

 

So where's all this stuff about no tribes anymore? That's not what God showed in His Word, for in Amos 9 He said He will sift the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) like corn through a sieve, and not the least grain will fall upon the earth. God knows where He scattered the majority of Israel, the ten lost tribe Israelites, which under Ephraim He promised would become "a multitude of nations" (Gen.48).

 

Ezekiel 37:19   Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

 

Can you honestly tell me what tribes there are today?  We are speaking of the 144,000 who are numbered amongst the tribes, and SEALED just before the wrath.  This means they are alive today.  Do Israel still keep their tribes separate today? 

Can somebody please tell me?

I would be warey of men who try to slam-dunk God's people whom He foreknew just to make their doctrines of men sound more plausable.

 

If you had read my post, you would see that that statement is not true.

 

The problem you are having is that you have always believed the 144,000 are Israelites only, because they are numbered from the 12 tribes..... or else you would not use that animosity towards me or try to label me as above?

You would reason if you were true,.... and if you think I am misled, then you would gently coax me back to truth by first answering all the points I made earlier to show you are interested in a two way discussion.

 

All you see are the names of those tribes - Israel, Israel, Israel, which one would automatically assume if he had not read all the other scriptures with God revealing his plan.

You are going backwards now, associating the inheritance with what God gave them back then, not thinking of way into the future millennium period.

 

The inheritance God promises Israel is not according to the past, but the future.  It's not going to be a place of division and war, or with affliction and darkness,

but a temporary safe haven, a land of truth, and light...The millennial kingdom is where they train for their inheritance, a camp for saints in training, a new covenant for them to learn,

with one very important factor that no man can achieve salvation unless he goes through Jesus Christ.

The millennium will be their Jesus Christ time.  Time made up for time lost.  Mercy.  Israel In training for their inheritance, in a land that God has chosen for them since the beginning.

 

Now, with the inheritance promised to Israel, are you saying that the gentile believers do not get a part of that inheritance first?.  ie 144,000 FIRST-fruits

and what exactly does the word inheritance mean to you?

I say it means inheriting everything that Christ owns, at the time of resurrection, whether it be on earth or heaven.

The kingdom area during the millennium is a place on earth which the resurrected saints have already inherited at the resurrection.

The house of Israel are brought here to dwell, but they have not inherited yet as the saints have because they are still flesh.

The real inheritance is not a piece of country, which is only going to be melted a thousand years later,....but will be everything God owns.

 

So that inheritance that was promised to Israel ....the kingdom of God/salvation/everlasting life/everything God owns....was given to the saints to claim.  Already theirs now, and the job of the saints, is to work with Christ and assisting with Israel's healing.

Israel will receive their inheritance at the 2nd resurrection, which is the kingdom of God.  Not part of it, but the whole kingdom.

 

Now back to the 144,000.

You are offended because I say I believe they are not all Israel, but true believers who follow Christ.

If you are jealous for Israel, then that's good, but I look into it deeper.

When it comes to salvation, Christ is no respecter of persons.

Christ has set the course, and any man that follow him, whether Jew or Greek, will receive his just reward according to his measure.

 

If any man want to run in the race to be chosen in this number (144,000) then he is free to compete.

In the end, it's Christ who selects, and not us.

We are not laboring for an easy way out, but prepared for the hardest of times, even if it means giving our lives up.

 

Is it so hard to picture 144,000 loyal ones who the lamb has fully fed? 

Who washed their robes white during their lifetime, in their walk with Christ and didn't need to be persecuted to death to receive it?

Can you picture some that have never openly rebuked the truth? but could discern? 

Lets face it, everyone thinks they can do this with confidence, but not everyone is right all the time.

It would take a true humble servant with a pure heart to admit error.

I don't see that around much, but know they would be the ones that Christ will feed.