Why I am Premillennial not Amillennial

[OneLight]

The two passages are not speaking of the same group of people. Again, you point to verses without posting them and showing how in scripture it means what you are saying.

As for the first question about quoting a post, look at the bottom right of each post. Click on the button that says "Quote"

OneLight,

 

I clicked on the quote button but it doesn't quote the post, I just get a blank reply box with no quote.

 

Read Rev. 20.4-6 as there are 3 different groups mentioned, only one of which are martyrs.

Not sure what browser you are using if all you get is a blank page???

Revelation 20:4-6, when speaking of those who were beheaded, are the ones who are said to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years. Those in Revelation 2:18-29, the ones who overcome from the church of Thyatira, will rule over the nations spoken of in Revelation 21:22 to 22:5. These are the nations they will rule over. In Revelation 2, notice Jesus speak of "the end" when He speaks of when things will happen. The Millennium is not the end.

[finestofthewheat]

The quote function doesn't work with IE, I get it now.

 

Revelation 20:4-6, when speaking of those who were beheaded, are the ones who are said to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years. Those in Revelation 2:18-29, the ones who overcome from the church of Thyatira, will rule over the nations spoken of in Revelation 21:22 to 22:5. These are the nations they will rule over. In Revelation 2, notice Jesus speak of "the end" when He speaks of when things will happen. The Millennium is not the end.

OneLight,
 
Not just martyrs but all overcomers will reign with Christ for 1000 years.

20.4 Three classes of people will reign with Christ:

(1) The overcomers will sit on thrones, and judgment will be given to them (20.4a). This shows that they have inherited the kingdom (see also Dan. 7.10,18,22—“Saints of the Most High”). All overcoming OT saints whether martyred or not from the OT and NT period.

(2) The martyrs throughout the 20 centuries (“them that had been beheaded”—20.4b). These are the souls under the altar as shown in the fifth seal (6.9f.). It is for “the testimony of Jesus” that they are killed. Of course these are Christian martyrs only.

(3) The martyrs during the Great Tribulation. These are those who do not worship the beast nor his image, and upon whose foreheads and hands no mark of the beast is received (20.4c).

 

You said something about the Millennial Kingdom being the end. No! After the millennial kingdom reign on earth with overcomers over the nations (Rev. 2.26,27) then comes the New City and New Earth in eternity future.

Edited October 26, 2014 by finestofthewheat

[OneLight]

Why doesn't the quote function work? So when I click on the Quote box at the bottom right why doesn't it quote text like to does on most forums? I have to manually grab some  text and post it in the box then manually quote it. The same problem occurs with Chrome, IE and Firefox.

 

Revelation 20:4-6, when speaking of those who were beheaded, are the ones who are said to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years. Those in Revelation 2:18-29, the ones who overcome from the church of Thyatira, will rule over the nations spoken of in Revelation 21:22 to 22:5. These are the nations they will rule over. In Revelation 2, notice Jesus speak of "the end" when He speaks of when things will happen. The Millennium is not the end.

OneLight,

 

Not just martyrs but all overcomers will reign with Christ for 1000 years.

20.4 Three classes of people will reign with Christ:

(1) The overcomers will sit on thrones, and judgment will be given to them (20.4a). This shows that they have inherited the kingdom (see also Dan. 7.10,18,22—“Saints of the Most High”). All overcoming OT saints whether martyred or not from the OT and NT period.

(2) The martyrs throughout the 20 centuries (“them that had been beheaded”—20.4b). These are the souls under the altar as shown in the fifth seal (6.9f.). It is for “the testimony of Jesus” that they are killed. Of course these are Christian martyrs only.

(3) The martyrs during the Great Tribulation. These are those who do not worship the beast nor his image, and upon whose foreheads and hands no mark of the beast is received (20.4c).

 

You said something about the Millennial Kingdom being the end. No! After the millennial kingdom reign on earth with overcomers over the nations (Rev. 2.26,27) then comes the New City and New Earth in eternity future.

 

 

1. Scripture states: "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them."  There is no statement that they will reign with Christ during the Millennium.  That is imposed by you, which is incorrect.  You are adding your own "understanding" to scripture.

 

2. Scripture states: "Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." No other time in history was anyone ever forced to accept the mark spoken of in Revelation outside of those in the last 70th week. This cannot apply to anyone before this time. Again, you are imposing your own "understanding" to scripture, which is incorrect.

3. Those who live during the 70th week and do not take the mark of the beast, nor worship the beast, are the only ones spoken about in this passage that will reign.

 

As for your issues with the quotes, try reinstalling your browser.

[finestofthewheat]

1. Scripture states: "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them."  There is no statement that they will reign with Christ during the Millennium.  That is imposed by you, which is incorrect.  You are adding your own "understanding" to scripture.

 

2. Scripture states: "Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." No other time in history was anyone ever forced to accept the mark spoken of in Revelation outside of those in the last 70th week. This cannot apply to anyone before this time. Again, you are imposing your own "understanding" to scripture, which is incorrect.

3. Those who live during the 70th week and do not take the mark of the beast, nor worship the beast, are the only ones spoken about in this passage that will reign.

 

As for your issues with the quotes, try reinstalling your browser.

 

Re-installing didn't work. It's an ongoing problem with IE.

 

Think how evil that would be if the only people that get to reign over the nations during the millennium are those martyred in the Tribulation. Whereas God is just, holy and fair. Anyone since Adam who overcometh will receive this reward. So the qualification is not just being saved but also overcoming including martyrdom in Christ.

 

20.5 “The first resurrection”—This does not necessarily mean that there is only one resurrection, nor does it denote that there are many resurrections. It simply signifies this as being the “best” resurrection.

The word “the” includes the two things mentioned in the last clause of 20.4:

(1) “Lived” and (2) “reigned”: The best resurrection means to live and to reign. Such a resurrection is a reward, for there is a reigning with Christ for a thousand years as well as a being resurrected.

“The second death” of 20.6 is in contrast with “the first resurrection”, because the latter means to enjoy glory while the former means to suffer eternally. Hence the first resurrection is none other than the time of recompense (Luke 14.14, 20.34-36).

What Paul says in Philippians 3.11 is not an expecting to be raised from the dead (for all the dead shall be resurrected), nor an anticipating the resurrection of the spirit (for the resurrection of the spirit is already accomplished at the time of new birth). No, what Paul is looking forward to is the “out-resurrection” from among the dead, which is this “best” resurrection spoken of here in 20.5, even a reigning with the Lord.

Read again Philippians 1.23-25. There in that epistle’s first chapter Paul is saying that he will live; he is not contemplating death. How, then, can he be talking about resurrection? He clearly states in Philippians 3.20,21 that he waits for the coming of the Lord. Consequently, what he anxiously hopes for is to reign with the Lord.

“The rest of the dead” naturally includes all the unsaved sinners. Their resurrection will come to pass a thousand years later.

Edited October 26, 2014 by finestofthewheat

[OneLight]

 

1. Scripture states: "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them."  There is no statement that they will reign with Christ during the Millennium.  That is imposed by you, which is incorrect.  You are adding your own "understanding" to scripture.

 

2. Scripture states: "Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." No other time in history was anyone ever forced to accept the mark spoken of in Revelation outside of those in the last 70th week. This cannot apply to anyone before this time. Again, you are imposing your own "understanding" to scripture, which is incorrect.

3. Those who live during the 70th week and do not take the mark of the beast, nor worship the beast, are the only ones spoken about in this passage that will reign.

 

As for your issues with the quotes, try reinstalling your browser.

 

Re-installing didn't work. It's an ongoing problem with IE.

 

Think how evil that would be if the only people that get to reign over the nations during the millennium are those martyred in the Tribulation. Whereas God is just, holy and fair. Anyone since Adam who overcometh will receive this reward. So the qualification is not just being saved but also overcoming including martyrdom in Christ.

 

How is this evil? Are you saying that God's word is wrong? He is the one who claims that only those who die during this time will reign with Him, not me.  Nor do I have to add to scripture to make my point.  Be very careful how you add to this prophecy, for Jesus gave a very stern warning to those who do.

 

Revelation 22:18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

The following makes very little sense to me and is hard to follow.  Neither does it have anything to do what what we are discussing.  It is not what scripture tells us, but what you derive from your "understanding".

20.5 “The first resurrection”—This does not necessarily mean that there is only one resurrection, nor does it denote that there are many resurrections. It simply signifies this as being the “best” resurrection.

The word “the” includes the two things mentioned in the last clause of 20.4:

(1) “Lived” and (2) “reigned”: The best resurrection means to live and to reign. Such a resurrection is a reward, for there is a reigning with Christ for a thousand years as well as a being resurrected.

“The second death” of 20.6 is in contrast with “the first resurrection”, because the latter means to enjoy glory while the former means to suffer eternally. Hence the first resurrection is none other than the time of recompense (Luke 14.14, 20.34-36).

What Paul says in Philippians 3.11 is not an expecting to be raised from the dead (for all the dead shall be resurrected), nor an anticipating the resurrection of the spirit (for the resurrection of the spirit is already accomplished at the time of new birth). No, what Paul is looking forward to is the “out-resurrection” from among the dead, which is this “best” resurrection spoken of here in 20.5, even a reigning with the Lord.

Read again Philippians 1.23-25. There in that epistle’s first chapter Paul is saying that he will live; he is not contemplating death. How, then, can he be talking about resurrection? He clearly states in Philippians 3.20,21 that he waits for the coming of the Lord. Consequently, what he anxiously hopes for is to reign with the Lord.

“The rest of the dead” naturally includes all the unsaved sinners. Their resurrection will come to pass a thousand years later.

[finestofthewheat]

How is this evil? Are you saying that God's word is wrong? He is the one who claims that only those who die during this time will reign with Him, not me.  Nor do I have to add to scripture to make my point.  Be very careful how you add to this prophecy, for Jesus gave a very stern warning to those who do.

 

Revelation 22:18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

The following makes very little sense to me and is hard to follow.  Neither does it have anything to do what what we are discussing.  It is not what scripture tells us, but what you derive from your "understanding".

20.5 “The first resurrection”—This does not necessarily mean that there is only one resurrection, nor does it denote that there are many resurrections. It simply signifies this as being the “best” resurrection.

The word “the” includes the two things mentioned in the last clause of 20.4:

(1) “Lived” and (2) “reigned”: The best resurrection means to live and to reign. Such a resurrection is a reward, for there is a reigning with Christ for a thousand years as well as a being resurrected.

“The second death” of 20.6 is in contrast with “the first resurrection”, because the latter means to enjoy glory while the former means to suffer eternally. Hence the first resurrection is none other than the time of recompense (Luke 14.14, 20.34-36).

What Paul says in Philippians 3.11 is not an expecting to be raised from the dead (for all the dead shall be resurrected), nor an anticipating the resurrection of the spirit (for the resurrection of the spirit is already accomplished at the time of new birth). No, what Paul is looking forward to is the “out-resurrection” from among the dead, which is this “best” resurrection spoken of here in 20.5, even a reigning with the Lord.

Read again Philippians 1.23-25. There in that epistle’s first chapter Paul is saying that he will live; he is not contemplating death. How, then, can he be talking about resurrection? He clearly states in Philippians 3.20,21 that he waits for the coming of the Lord. Consequently, what he anxiously hopes for is to reign with the Lord.

“The rest of the dead” naturally includes all the unsaved sinners. Their resurrection will come to pass a thousand years later.

 

 

Of course that would be evil that you would have to be murdered as the only way to receive the reward of reigning with Christ. What about all those Christians who are deeply consecrated and walking deeply with the Lord, but they were not murdered, yet they receive no blessing? Since when should Christians be punished since they were not martyred? I can't find the Bible saying that anywhere.

 

You are misreading God's word. Nowhere does Rev. 20.4,5 say only the martyred receive the reward of reigning; it includes all overcomers. Some may think even martyred might not receive this reward, but the Bible is clear they do receive this reward in addition to all overcomers. 

 

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" (Rev. 2.26,27). This verse does not say "he that is martyred only" nor does Rev. 20.4,5 say only martyred, but includes the martyred along with all the overcomers in the first part of Rev. 20.4. A person who is martyred has overcometh, but so has someone who is not martyred if they overcometh. This agrees with Rev. 20.4,5.

 

Since you can't get Rev. 2.26 to agree with your interpretation of Rev. 20.4,5 you are subject to the judgment of Rev. 22.18,19. I would not want to be in your shoes.

 

You said you can't make sense of where overcomers reign in my interpretation given, but it is nonetheless true in Rev. 20.4,5 "they lived and reigned". 

[OneLight]

 

How is this evil? Are you saying that God's word is wrong? He is the one who claims that only those who die during this time will reign with Him, not me.  Nor do I have to add to scripture to make my point.  Be very careful how you add to this prophecy, for Jesus gave a very stern warning to those who do.

 

Revelation 22:18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

The following makes very little sense to me and is hard to follow.  Neither does it have anything to do what what we are discussing.  It is not what scripture tells us, but what you derive from your "understanding".

 

 

20.5 “The first resurrection”—This does not necessarily mean that there is only one resurrection, nor does it denote that there are many resurrections. It simply signifies this as being the “best” resurrection.

The word “the” includes the two things mentioned in the last clause of 20.4:

(1) “Lived” and (2) “reigned”: The best resurrection means to live and to reign. Such a resurrection is a reward, for there is a reigning with Christ for a thousand years as well as a being resurrected.

“The second death” of 20.6 is in contrast with “the first resurrection”, because the latter means to enjoy glory while the former means to suffer eternally. Hence the first resurrection is none other than the time of recompense (Luke 14.14, 20.34-36).

What Paul says in Philippians 3.11 is not an expecting to be raised from the dead (for all the dead shall be resurrected), nor an anticipating the resurrection of the spirit (for the resurrection of the spirit is already accomplished at the time of new birth). No, what Paul is looking forward to is the “out-resurrection” from among the dead, which is this “best” resurrection spoken of here in 20.5, even a reigning with the Lord.

Read again Philippians 1.23-25. There in that epistle’s first chapter Paul is saying that he will live; he is not contemplating death. How, then, can he be talking about resurrection? He clearly states in Philippians 3.20,21 that he waits for the coming of the Lord. Consequently, what he anxiously hopes for is to reign with the Lord.

“The rest of the dead” naturally includes all the unsaved sinners. Their resurrection will come to pass a thousand years later.

 

 

Of course that would be evil that you would have to be murdered as the only way to receive the reward of reigning with Christ. What about all those Christians who are deeply consecrated and walking deeply with the Lord, but they were not murdered, yet they receive no blessing? Since when should Christians be punished since they were not martyred? I can't find the Bible saying that anywhere.

 

You are misreading God's word. Nowhere does Rev. 20.4,5 say only the martyred receive the reward of reigning; it includes all overcomers. Some may think even martyred might not receive this reward, but the Bible is clear they do receive this reward in addition to all overcomers.

 

 

What you claim I am missing, I see as a blessing for not following.  Your theology is skewed to the point that you believe that if those who have died in Him, but are not reigning with Him during the Millennium, are somehow not blessed and God is evil for that.  What you fail to see is that this is a special blessing only for those who died this way.   Imagine, if you will, how difficult it will be for those during that time, to stand fast in Christ.  I am sure that there will be times when whole families will watch as their family members are murdered because they refuse to accept the mark or worship the beast.  We, today, know of no such torture.  We have it so easy.  If God chooses to reward those with such a blessing, why do you call it evil?  How sad that you see scripture in such a way that you are actually saying God is evil.

 

Let's look at the whole passage once again.

 

Revelation 20:4-6

 

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 

 

⁵ But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

⁶ Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

Notice the following conjunctions in verse 4.  The inclusive "and" in verse 4 ties the requirements together.  The noninclusive word "or" meas one or the other, which does not require both to be true.  Those who died in Christ prior to the introduction of the mark or the beast are not included in this group of brothers and sisters.

 

 

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" (Rev. 2.26,27). This verse does not say "he that is martyred only" nor does Rev. 20.4,5 say only martyred, but includes the martyred along with all the overcomers in the first part of Rev. 20.4. A person who is martyred has overcometh, but so has someone who is not martyred if they overcometh. This agrees with Rev. 20.4,5.

 

Since you can't get Rev. 2.26 to agree with your interpretation of Rev. 20.4,5 you are subject to the judgment of Rev. 22.18,19. I would not want to be in your shoes.

 

You said you can't make sense of where overcomers reign in my interpretation given, but it is nonetheless true in Rev. 20.4,5 "they lived and reigned". 

This is one place you make a grievous mistake. Revelation 2 has nothing to do with revelation 20. You cannot tie these two together and remain in proper exegesis within hermeneutics. This I already explained. Perhaps you need to go back and reread what I wrote.

[finestofthewheat]

 

 

How is this evil? Are you saying that God's word is wrong? He is the one who claims that only those who die during this time will reign with Him, not me.  Nor do I have to add to scripture to make my point.  Be very careful how you add to this prophecy, for Jesus gave a very stern warning to those who do.

 

Revelation 22:18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

The following makes very little sense to me and is hard to follow.  Neither does it have anything to do what what we are discussing.  It is not what scripture tells us, but what you derive from your "understanding".

 

 

20.5 “The first resurrection”—This does not necessarily mean that there is only one resurrection, nor does it denote that there are many resurrections. It simply signifies this as being the “best” resurrection.

The word “the” includes the two things mentioned in the last clause of 20.4:

(1) “Lived” and (2) “reigned”: The best resurrection means to live and to reign. Such a resurrection is a reward, for there is a reigning with Christ for a thousand years as well as a being resurrected.

“The second death” of 20.6 is in contrast with “the first resurrection”, because the latter means to enjoy glory while the former means to suffer eternally. Hence the first resurrection is none other than the time of recompense (Luke 14.14, 20.34-36).

What Paul says in Philippians 3.11 is not an expecting to be raised from the dead (for all the dead shall be resurrected), nor an anticipating the resurrection of the spirit (for the resurrection of the spirit is already accomplished at the time of new birth). No, what Paul is looking forward to is the “out-resurrection” from among the dead, which is this “best” resurrection spoken of here in 20.5, even a reigning with the Lord.

Read again Philippians 1.23-25. There in that epistle’s first chapter Paul is saying that he will live; he is not contemplating death. How, then, can he be talking about resurrection? He clearly states in Philippians 3.20,21 that he waits for the coming of the Lord. Consequently, what he anxiously hopes for is to reign with the Lord.

“The rest of the dead” naturally includes all the unsaved sinners. Their resurrection will come to pass a thousand years later.

 

 

Of course that would be evil that you would have to be murdered as the only way to receive the reward of reigning with Christ. What about all those Christians who are deeply consecrated and walking deeply with the Lord, but they were not murdered, yet they receive no blessing? Since when should Christians be punished since they were not martyred? I can't find the Bible saying that anywhere.

 

You are misreading God's word. Nowhere does Rev. 20.4,5 say only the martyred receive the reward of reigning; it includes all overcomers. Some may think even martyred might not receive this reward, but the Bible is clear they do receive this reward in addition to all overcomers.

 

 

What you claim I am missing, I see as a blessing for not following.  Your theology is skewed to the point that you believe that if those who have died in Him, but are not reigning with Him during the Millennium, are somehow not blessed and God is evil for that.  What you fail to see is that this is a special blessing only for those who died this way.   Imagine, if you will, how difficult it will be for those during that time, to stand fast in Christ.  I am sure that there will be times when whole families will watch as their family members are murdered because they refuse to accept the mark or worship the beast.  We, today, know of no such torture.  We have it so easy.  If God chooses to reward those with such a blessing, why do you call it evil?  How sad that you see scripture in such a way that you are actually saying God is evil.

 

Let's look at the whole passage once again.

 

Revelation 20:4-6

 

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 

 

⁵ But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

⁶ Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

Notice the following conjunctions in verse 4.  The inclusive "and" in verse 4 ties the requirements together.  The noninclusive word "or" meas one or the other, which does not require both to be true.  Those who died in Christ prior to the introduction of the mark or the beast are not included in this group of brothers and sisters.

 

 

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" (Rev. 2.26,27). This verse does not say "he that is martyred only" nor does Rev. 20.4,5 say only martyred, but includes the martyred along with all the overcomers in the first part of Rev. 20.4. A person who is martyred has overcometh, but so has someone who is not martyred if they overcometh. This agrees with Rev. 20.4,5.

 

Since you can't get Rev. 2.26 to agree with your interpretation of Rev. 20.4,5 you are subject to the judgment of Rev. 22.18,19. I would not want to be in your shoes.

 

You said you can't make sense of where overcomers reign in my interpretation given, but it is nonetheless true in Rev. 20.4,5 "they lived and reigned". 

This is one place you make a grievous mistake. Revelation 2 has nothing to do with revelation 20. You cannot tie these two together and remain in proper exegesis within hermeneutics. This I already explained. Perhaps you need to go back and reread what I wrote.

 

 

Nowhere did I say those who have been martyred would not return with Christ to reign during the 1000 years. You are sinning bearing false witness when you falsely accused by saying, "you believe that if those who have died in Him, but are not reigning with Him." Is that all you have to resort to is sin? A false belief would have to resort to such sin, because the truth is not on your side as you try rationalize your sin by falsely accusing. It is very wrong to make up stuff, claiming someone said something they did not say.

 

The special blessing is to reign with Christ 1000 years over the nations on earth in person. This blessing is given not to just martyred but all saints that overcometh as we find in Rev. 20.4.a and Rev. 2.26. What is the negative consequence of your beliefs? You see the martyrdom only, but God sees the overcoming, and one of the things that can happen from overcoming is being martyred. This is what you fail to see. You are focused on death. God is focused on overcoming. Perhaps you are more like a Muslim and suicide mass murderers who blow themselves up. I am sure they have this teaching of yours too with no distinction. But I am a Christian so I must rebuke you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Spirit.

 

You are being evil because the Bible says, "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron" (Rev. 2.26,27) on "thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them" (Rev. 20.4a) which you claim is not true. The reigning over the nations is during the millennial kingdom. Who can say Christians are reigning today? You have nothing to counter this fact, but only say such reigning has "nothing to do" with it. I am glad you couldn't show otherwise, but have your back up against the wall ever more confused.

 

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and...." (Rev. 20.4a). First the general statement is made, then some specifics are given. Then Rev. 20.4 closes with them living and reigning for 1000 years. This is common practice in Scripture. For example, Rev. 12 to 19 give the details on Rev. 7 to 11 major points of the Tribulation; not unlike how Gen. 2 gives the details of Gen. 1.

 

Study 20.4a more carefully. The overcomers will sit on thrones, and judgment will be given to them (20.4a). This shows that they have inherited the kingdom (see also Dan. 7.10,18,22—“Saints of the Most High”). Not all Saints of the Most High have been martyred. Who can say all overcomers have been killed? These overcomers are overcomers because of their overcoming not because of their martyrdom. Some have been put in place of martyrdom as a result of their overcoming and so naturally, they are emphasized. Just like in the Smyrna church period of great martyrdom who were not martyred they were told to hold on for 10 more days.

 

[Dan 7:10, 18, 22 KJV] 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. ... 18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. ... 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

 

This passage in Daniel 7 an Rev. 2.26,27 and Rev. 20.4,5 all agree there will be a reigning which is the millennial kingdom, but you can't get the latter Rev. 20.4a in your interpretation to agree with Dan. 7 and Rev. 2 because you have a false belief in your heart. Shutting your mind down to the agreement of these passages is most troubling for you; it will lead to worse and worse behavior patterns. What then is wrong with your heart that you would do this and alter God's word so bizarrely?

 

I think the problem with your heart is that you are missing what God is after which is the overcoming to keep the word of His patience, to be prayerful, watchful, and to keep the conduct of Matt. 5-7 in order to escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world in the first rapture that is according to readiness. This is called partial rapture. For you it is not about readiness but being killed. This is a corrupted view of things. How deceitful Satan is!

Edited October 27, 2014 by finestofthewheat

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