Being led by Holy Spirit into wilderness & away from local church?

[GoldenEagle]

This thread relates to this other thread/article: where there was the following response which I've heard something similar before:
 

"A problem with this article is that they deny the right of the Holy Spirit to lead people into the wilderness. My time away from the structures of Sunday services has been that for me. The Lord gave me other ways to fellowship and 'hear the Word'. (internet and books)."

When asked about this "right of the Holy Spirit to lead people into the wilderness" in Scripture the following examples were given:

1. Moses (Exodus 2:11-15)
2. Israel (with a focus on Numbers 13 & 14 - added by me)
3. Elijah (1 Kings 19)
4. Jesus (Matt. 4:1-17, Luke 4:1-15)
5. Another example not mentioned?

So I'd like to open up this discussion with 3 questions:

A. How do these examples point to a Christian being led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness?

(For those who do not participate in a local Church...)

B. What is God teaching you and how is God growing you during this time of separation from the local Church body?

C. Is this removal from the local church long-term or for a time? Do you intend on eventually re-joining the local Church gatherings?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

1. Moses (Exodus 2:11-15)

 

Questions:

 

1. How does this account relate to a Christian being “led into the wilderness” (or away from the local church) by God’s Holy Spirit?

2. Did God lead Moses into the wilderness?

God bless,

GE

 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

1. Moses (Exodus 2:11-15)

Questions:

1. How does this account relate to a Christian being “led into the wilderness” (or away from the local church) by God’s Holy Spirit?

2. Did God lead Moses into the wilderness?

God bless,

GE

The Holy Spirit didn't lead Moses away from a local Church. he lead him away from persecution so I fail to understand the two paralleling each other.

****edit

I think it is very dangerous when individuals decide they can go it alone. It goes against the very teaching of Jesus.

Jesus created a Church and gaves us leaders of that church. He left the deposit of faith with them to pass on to us. If you have a problem with your local church perhaps you need to reflect on what is the truth and the true Church of Christ and find that church instead of walking way from Christs body.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Judas Machabeus

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

1. Moses (Exodus 2:11-15)

Questions:

1. How does this account relate to a Christian being “led into the wilderness” (or away from the local church) by God’s Holy Spirit?

2. Did God lead Moses into the wilderness?

God bless,

GE

 

The Holy Spirit didn't lead Moses away from a local Church. he lead him away from persecution so I fail to understand the two paralleling each other.

****edit

I think it is very dangerous when individuals decide they can go it alone. It goes against the very teaching of Jesus.

Jesus created a Church and gaves us leaders of that church. He left the deposit of faith with them to pass on to us. If you have a problem with your local church perhaps you need to reflect on what is the truth and the true Church of Christ and find that church instead of walking way from Christs body.

 

^{I would tend to agree with you Judas Machabeus. I'm simply trying to understand the other views perspective on the matter. Here's how I see it:}

*Moses – personal wilderness wandering due to the sin of murder, not being led by God’s Spirit (Ex. 2:11-15)

Moses personally went into the wilderness after killing an Egyptian fearing for his life and the wrath of Pharaoh he fled to Midian. In other words Moses was fleeing for his for sin he committed. God didn't cause or tempt Moses to sin. Probably not a good example for us as Christians today to go out into the wilderness can we agree?

God used this event in Moses's life. God didn't cause this event in Moses's life.

God bless,

^GE

 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Ooh gotcha!! I didn't look up the verse you quoted and assumed you were talking about the exodus from Egypt. My bad!!

With that context in mind that is something to ponder

[Qnts2]

Generally, when a person or group is led out into the 'wilderness', it is a time of training/learning.

 

For me, most of the churches (charismatic and pentacostal) in my area were heavily involved in shepherding. I was struggling as the doctrine did not appear as biblical but every church I knew of taught the shepherding doctrine. I could not figure it out as to my knowledge, I was the only person I knew of who thought something was seriously wrong, yet, I could not accept that I could be the only one who saw it as wrong. I thought the problem was mine, and not so many pastors of local churches. I separated from the local churches. And did a lot of prayer and study. It was during that time I got onto the internet amd on my first forum. When I talked to the people on the forums, which included 3 or 4 pastors, they were all shocked that the shepherding doctrines were still being taught in my area, as the originaters of that movement had already disbanded, with many having repented. It was surprising to me to find people who believed just like I did. I no longer had to struggle with the issue.

 

Another time, God showed me something in scripture that I had never heard taught by anyone. It was another wilderness time of prayer and scripture study. I again struggled with the idea that I was the only person who say this, but in the end, I was led to read a little known paper by a well known person, which was essentially about the doctrine and in agreement with what I believed God had shown me. 

 

A third time, I was struggling with not being allowed as a woman to do, even though it was something I felt called to. I separated and studied, and in my separation, met someone outside of my area who mentored me and trained me to follow the calling. That was life changing and truthfully, gave me such a differing perspective that I am no longer reticent of serving God without permission from a pastor (a shepherding doctrine).

 

So, whenever I have been led to separate from a local congregation, it was a time of learning and change.      

[Guest Teditis]

That's a great story Qnts.

 

I think that it's essential to separate from a church that doesn't follow the Bible (of course),

but also churches that don't minister to your individual needs. And if a bit of "wandering" is

the result of that, God is still with us, so fear not to wander.

 

Still, I think it's important to associate with fellow believers and also stretch our socially to

be around others that don't minister to us but we have to minister to them, overtly or covertly...

as needs must.

 

The only ones that can direct our paths in this is either ourselves or God... and there's the rub.

What are we doing in regard to our Sanctification or our Servitude to our Lord in what we are doing.

But if we keep the Lord in our minds as we do all things... He is faithful and just and will guide us through

any environment, spiritual or otherwise.

 

Some of my strongest growth periods have been outside/away from congregation... and much of my growth

has been when surrounded by believers... both have been good.

Likewise, some of my weakest periods have come while separated from brothers&sisters in Christ... and some

of my biggest stumbling blocks have been other believers (particularly those that were overly legalistic and

judgmental)... both have kept me from staying centered in Christ.. not good.

 

The only constant throughout both venues of learning was God.

And then, how my attitude was towards Him as my Lord and the Lamp onto my feet at any particular time.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Golden Eagle,

 

A very interesting & important question. I think I would have to ask first, `What is your definition of the local church, & what do you call the wilderness?`

it may seem obvious to some but we have been doing things differently over the past few years & before I share I just want to clarify what you mean.

 

Marilyn.

[Zemke]

The wilderness experiences in the bible concerning individuals speak more of training and as it has already been mentioned, learning. There is a purpose for a period of time and then an end. 

"He who dwells alone argues against all sound reason."

 

It isn't a permanent state. Depending on your calling the wilderness will do as it will. Most of us will not really know what's going on until it's over and at some point in the future will look back and say "Oh ya, wow, you were with me all along."   

 

 Think about Jacob and what he must have experienced losing Joseph.  I'm sure it made no sense at all to him. Wilderness doesn't always have to be about dwelling alone. 

 

The wilderness is a place of death. Moses, a prince of Egypt with the best education the world had to offer. Saul of Tarsus, Pharisee of the Pharisies. David, anointed to be king, a great warrior and loved by the people. Wilderness, wilderness, wilderness, The old man must die and the new man put on. Types illuminate doctrine, not make doctrine. God may or may not use our past but if He does it will be in His time and on His terms.

 

In some way every believer will experience the wilderness. But the heavier the calling the heavier the wilderness. Count the costs.

 

Using types as doctrine to justify action is dangerous and improper. A form of gnosticism, claiming intuitive insight into the scriptures. 

 

It's usually part of the way cults and heavy shepherds justify rule over the people. The Moses leadership thing used by some fellowships can get out of hand and does. And why they have difficulty with some sound teachers. If we break away from a church that is heavy shepherding or a cult we need to find true believers and solid discipleship.

 

That may be our wilderness with a few believers but we will be taught sound doctrine in it. Not stay away and do the same thing to ourselves they were doing to the flock.  

 

"Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together, especially as you see that day approaching." 

[Diatheosis]

Intimacy with God, learning about inner personal life and self, thus becoming more sensitive to spirituality, aka discerning as external stimuli do not constantly turn attention to the worldly things. If we don't know ourselves properly the enemy has better chances of fooling us around.