Is it better to say I'm not a Christian

[hamletcat]

Well I think some believe that when the bible says Jesus died and was resurrected 3 days later, people are thinking that it means he became a zombie. I think that is where the confusion is, the term "resurrection" means becomes a zombie. Does that make sense?

We are a really "odd-ball" group because our bible study group is made up of people from many of the surrounding churches. This is because bible study is only offered at one church in our town. We have a minister leading the group, but he rarely gets involved in the "heated" debates. He just says: "let's move on." and then we go to another piece of scripture.

[hamletcat]

Ok that really helps a lot. Now I can understand where problem is coming from. It is differences in the interpretation of scripture on both parts, that are leading us to "think" we have different beliefs, and then that matters. We are coming from different denominations. Our bible study group is made up of people from different churches. Pentecostal, baptist, mennonite, etc.

So now that I know this is the problem, what do I do whenever there is an issue over scripture, because with our group I know it is going to come up again. And I want everybody to participate openly and honestly. Do I just say that "I think it is ok that everyone's interpretation and application of scripture are personal? And the god means it to be that way."

If you have a group that is claiming that Jesus was a zombie, you have HUGE problems.   That notion completely undercuts the resurrection of Jesus and what it means to us.

 

What you have been describing about this group in this thread and the other one demonstrates some major theological problems with the people whom you are studying with.   Claiming Jesus was a zombie is a major false teaching, not minor difference that believers can agree to disagree on. 

 

Despite the different denominations, it sounds like you have some people who are woefully errant in their view of Jesus.  

 

Interpretation isn't personal.   Application is personal.  Interpretation is objective and speaks to the meaning the author intends for us to take from the text.  For them to say that Jesus was a zombie demonstrates that a huge interpretation issue is in play.

 

One other question...  Who is leading this study group??

I understand now what you mean about "interpretation." And I think "application" means how someone uses the scripture in their daily lives. But is the word when people read what the author writes and it has a different meaning to them than it does to someone else. Is there a word that means that? do you know what I mean? because I think that is where we are getting stuck.

[Guest shiloh357]

I understand now what you mean about "interpretation." And I think "application" means how someone uses the scripture in their daily lives. But is the word when people read what the author writes and it has a different meaning to them than it does to someone else. Is there a word that means that? do you know what I mean? because I think that is where we are getting stuck.

 

That's because people really don't understand the nature of interpretation.   It's like this:   If a person comes to the US from say, Poland and the only context they have ever heard the English word 'love' used, is in a romantic context, what might they think when they hear someone talk about how much they "love" their  dog or how much they "love" their children?   If they don't understand the "street" use of the word love, they could be forgiven for getting the wrong idea.  Context is EVERYTHING.  Reading the Bible literally means reading it as literature.  It means understanding words the way the author is using them.  Word usage is more important than word meaning, as I have already demonstrated. 

 

Interpretation is about getting down to the author's original meaning that he is trying to communicate in the text.  So interpretation isn't about what it means to you; it is about what it meant to the author and how the original audience would received what the author said.  Interpretation takes into account the purpose and occasion for why the text was written, what the needs of readership were, the immediate literary context as well as the historical and cultural context into which the text is embedded.  All of those things flavor the text and cannot be ignored if we want a solid understanding it.

 

Most Christians are able to interpret any other piece of literature correctly.   We don't read a cookbook like its Shakespeare.   We don't read a biography of Martin Luther King Jr. like its a work of science fiction.  Whenever we read a piece of literature in any other context, we naturally adjust to the intent of the author and read accordingly.  But for some reason, that goes out the window when people read the Bible. We can interpret any other piece of literature just fine, for the most part.  But the Bible is different.  The Bible makes claims that sometimes, people don't want to accept.  And sometimes, people pencil things into the Bible in order to make the Bible fit their preconceptions about God.  They attempt to mold the Bible around what they already believe, rather than letting the Bible shape what they believe about God, Jesus, etc.

 

You're getting stuck because there is a lack of real understanding about how interpretation works.  If interpretation is subjective, people can bring anything they want into their interpretation of the Bible, like Jesus being a zombie, and everything really goes off the rails at that point.

 

Again, who is leading this group?  It seems to me that this group needs some solid pastoral leadership and there are members in your group in desperate need of discipleship.

[hamletcat]

I understand now what you mean about "interpretation." And I think "application" means how someone uses the scripture in their daily lives. But is the word when people read what the author writes and it has a different meaning to them than it does to someone else. Is there a word that means that? do you know what I mean? because I think that is where we are getting stuck.

Most Christians

Again, who is leading this group?  It seems to me that this group needs some solid pastoral leadership and there are members in your group in desperate need of discipleship.

Wow, this is extremely helpful and it changes everything. This is exactly what is going on. It is the minister at the church where the bible study is held, that is leading the group. And sometimes he does add a bit of context that helps, but some people don't really listen to what he says so they miss the significance. He has also told me that he doesn't really like discussing aspects of Christianity with atheists, and he prefers to avoid discussions with them. He says it never goes anywhere useful. He's a great leader though, his sermons are really good and I think would inspire atheists.

[Willa]

Words like zombie and conjure come from the occult. To use them would offend many Christian, who would prefer the term resurrected.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 NKJV For I delivered to you that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again according to the scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas (Peter) and then by the twelve, after that He was seen by over 500 brethern at once,---

Romans 10: 9-10 NKJV That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

John 1:1-4, 12, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God He was in the beginning with God All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made. In Him was life --.

12. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were BORN, not of blood nor of flesh, nor of the will of man, but OF GOD.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as ìf the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Philippians 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you which was also in CHRIST JESUS, WHO BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD, did not count it robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservent (slave), and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in the appearance of a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death, even the death on the cross. Therefore God has exalted Him and given Him the name that is above every name, the at that name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Colossians 1:13-16 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, for BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED THAT ARE IN HEAVEN AND THAT ARE ON EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Col. 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead, bodily;

John 3:3 Jesus answered him and said: most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born again He cannot see the Kingdom of God.

If you have ever had any dealings with the occult, spiritism, ouiji boards and the like, you must repent and turn away from such practices, ask God to forgive you, and receive the forgiveness from Christ which was purchased by His death on the cross. There is no way that you can mix the occult with Christianity. If this is what you are trying to do, you are right; you cannot call yourself a Christian.

But if you are just using human terms to discribe your beliefs, there would not be as much friction if you used bibical terms.

[Alejandro84]

Hamletcat, does your minister use words like zombie?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

I understand now what you mean about "interpretation." And I think "application" means how someone uses the scripture in their daily lives. But is the word when people read what the author writes and it has a different meaning to them than it does to someone else. Is there a word that means that? do you know what I mean? because I think that is where we are getting stuck.

Most Christians

Again, who is leading this group?  It seems to me that this group needs some solid pastoral leadership and there are members in your group in desperate need of discipleship.

Wow, this is extremely helpful and it changes everything. This is exactly what is going on. It is the minister at the church where the bible study is held, that is leading the group. And sometimes he does add a bit of context that helps, but some people don't really listen to what he says so they miss the significance. He has also told me that he doesn't really like discussing aspects of Christianity with atheists, and he prefers to avoid discussions with them. He says it never goes anywhere useful. He's a great leader though, his sermons are really good and I think would inspire atheists.

 

How does this pastor respond to those who claim Jesus was a zombie?

[hamletcat]

As far as I know no one is calling Jesus a zombie.

[Guest shiloh357]

As far as I know no one is calling Jesus a zombie.

 

But you said this in your OP:

 

"There was one issue in my bible study that happened recently where one person took offence to the fact that I didn't believe that Jesus was a "zombie." Sorry if that seems offensive but I don't know how else to describe it. I do believe that Jesus might have survived the Crucifixion but I don't believe he was a "zombie."

[hamletcat]

Hi.

I want to thank everyone for the contribution to this post. Please do not post on this thread anymore because it needs to be deleted. If I can't figure out how to do it myself, I will ask a moderator to do it for me.