Spiritually Minded

[mevosper]

mevosper

I am not referring to the leading of the Holy Spirit or the leading of the spirit of Jesus, 

 

Then you are following after the same spirit as Saul and the witch of endor as mentioned in 1 Sam 28. 

 

 

 When I look at a door, I want to see it as a way into or out of something, I want to see it as something that is a seal or threshold to a place, I want to see it as a secured entrance - I do not want to see it as a wooden contraption with a handle.

 

It's both. You can't have the one without the other. To me it is a way to the bathroom as well as the physical contraption that needs to be manipulated. 

 

 

but if they were something I had never seen before, or were not directly thinking of the spirit of them, I would likely only see a lion and a hand holding the earth, or I would only see a slab of wood with a handle. And I want to see that step that is just beyond the physical shape and upon first glance - 

 

 

Think about what you are saying here. You want to know what something is immediately when you first observe it or see it? You are saying, whether you realize it or not, that you want to be a person like George Washington from the 1700s knowing exactly what to do with a smartphone when he first lays eyes on it? (Yes this is an extreme example, but you get the point). This is not going to happen. This is why there are words such as grow, and mature, and teach and learn. 

 

Whether you see a physical thing or a spiritual thing (with spiritual eyes) for the first time, there is a huge likelyhood you will not know what it is or what it is for. 

 

If you were to come to my house, you may perceive that I make furniture. but if you've never operated a chop-saw before, I'm not going to let you have a go with it. I would be more than happy to show you how to use it though. 

 

In the logo, if you didn't know that the lion represented Christ, you may want to know what that means. In that case, you would have to learn (by asking, or studying). You are not going to "just know". Life is not about a bunch of shortcuts and easy paths.

 

I have a daughter who is 15. When she was 12, she couldn't wait to be 15. When she was 8, she couldn't wait to be 12. Now, she can't wait to be 18 and drive. She's so in a hurry to get to where she isn't, she's missing the joys and contentment of being where she is. That's what you want - but nobody gets that. We have to live through, and be taught by the fires of life. This is what makes us mature. 

 

 

 And I want to see that step that is just beyond the physical shape and upon first glance - I want to see might, or security, etc., which is the spirit of them when they were translated into the light, and I want to see it like that without trying. And so when I see, for example, a whirlwind of leaves, I want to know what that means spiritually. Or any other example you can think of.

 

 

In the case of the door, if you've never seen one before, how would you even know what it is? You would have no idea of it's security or might without really know what it's function is. Yes, I can see how you relate the spirit of the door to "might" and/or "security". But the spirit of the door could also be "the way to relief" (bathroom), or obscurity, or "do not enter". The door has many "ideas" tied to it.  

 

Again, until we are pupils, we are without knowledge. 

 

 

 And so when I see, for example, a whirlwind of leaves, I want to know what that means spiritually. Or any other example you can think of.

 

 

You know, it may just be a whirlwind of leaves. It may have nothing to do with anything except an atmospheric event that caused a bunch of leaves to dance across the field. If you need a spiritual take on this, I view these as fun moments that God gives me. Like a brief oasis in this desert walk. I often watch and observe the moon and stars for the same reason. Just mentally, I keep a tally on the different phases of the moon and how it relates to the time of month. 

 

I do have an example that would be very befitting of this conversation. But the explanation behind it would be so beyond this post. In the end, I have to chalk it up to faith in him - he knows whats best for me and reveals to me what I'm ready to see/know/feel/learn/etc. God has plans for each one of us. As we grow in the knowledge of him, over time and through much learning (NOT OVERNIGHT), he reveals to us what he knows will help us. We are like a tree planted by the waters in which we bare fruit in our season. 

 

 

Also, I do not seek after prophecies so much - they're too scary.

Also, growth in Christ is noted.

Scary?!? Not so. They just take some time to digest. And actually, once I began to understand them more, I continued going back to them. 

 

Growth is a slow process. Don't breeze over that as if it is just another "fun Christian saying". 

 

God bless and keep learning. Above all, I hope this is helpful to you. 

[Cog]

mevosper

My take on it all is that, just as your words are translated from your spirit, all things seen are translated, and so I shouldn't then have to come back and try to decipher what they mean, since they have already been translated - we should have no problems understanding the spirit of one another - the will, purpose, or desire of one another in what we formulate or in what God or anyone has formulated unless they are lying (and those need to be tested, I understand that).

And no, what I'm referring to is not what Saul was doing; and really, did Saul even need to go to the witch? He knew he had been cut off - what was told to him, he already knew. Regardless, I am not seeking to talk to demons, or the dead, but if they do talk, I would like to know what is in their spirit so I can see if they are evil or not without having to deciphering anything. What I'm referring to is seeing the spirit of things as translated into the light by God and others. And not just that, but stay in that mindset, to constantly understand that that is what is happening, instead of losing sight of that and only seeing an object based reality like a piece of wood with a knob on it.

I guess, ultimately, what I am trying to say is that there is nothing physical about physicality, and I would like to no longer we drawn into that frame of reference. I want to only see that physicality is spiritual, but the supply is not meeting the demand. It is a persistant illusion that I cannot break free of. I want to see things as they are seen when translated. Is that not the point in translation? To share and pass on the understanding of the spirit? So what's with having to decipher everything?

Edited December 24, 2014 by Cog

[Qnts2]

FresnoJoe

I do not think it is an either or kind of thing. I think if we are to test spirits, then we must first see them. By no uncertain terms did I ever suggest that I was trying to put what spirits were saying above God's spirits, so I am not sure why everyone is freaking out about me wanting to be spiritually minded.

We are supposed to be spiritually minded - it is pretty much one of the main teachings of Jesus - to see the spirit, not the letter - the spirit, not the shape. Eyes to see and ears to hear.

Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Clearly Father has, is, and will translate the Spirit into the Body, and once completed, God will be all in all. I seek to understand the spirits so that I can understand God from what has been made. We are more than just humans, we are bride and temple builders if we bare the cross - and our spirit, as such, is just one spirit that God has breathed into the light. I want to see the others too, and I can see some of them some times, but not all of them all the time.

I don't see others as 'freaking out'. They are just trying to tell you that what you are trying to do is not biblical.

In my view, your definition of being 'spiritually minded' is not a biblical understanding. For a brief time, in my college days when I looked at other ideas which were out there, I came across Karate, and thru Karate, I met people who were into Zen Buddhism. Zen Buddhism believes that you must look beyond the physicallity of something to see the spiritual reality of everything. It teaches ultimately, we are all one, God/Spiritual oneness with all, and our minds need to be retrained to see the spiritual reality rather then the physical appearance. They had a series of 'riddles' to meditate on and solve, which shifted the view of the world from physical separation to spiritual unity, so you can see the spiritual unity and no longer see the world as physical separation.

So, your view, and your pursuit sound more like Zen then it does biblical. The bible does talk about Spiritual things but God created the physical and declared that it is good. Being Spiritually minded in scripture is very different then what you are pursuing.

[Cog]

Qnts2

Why do you think prophecies and parables are always relating objects to spiritual understandings? If it was to relate something that someone understood to something they didn't understand so that they could have understanding, then why would the true understanding have to almost always be explained after the images or words were given?

Could it be that objects are images of what is seen in the spirit? And those images, like these words, are meant to lead you to the understanding of the spirit, once you understand the language?

Do you think God was just doodling when he made this place? That everything means nothing? That reality is more akin to abstract art than it is to language or words from God?

See, I am not trying to disregard the language or word or image or light or Jesus... he is the way, after all. No, all I'm asking is how to stay focused on that fact - that the objects / light are language - that "physicality" is language which leads to the understanding or translation of the spirit.

But to understand the language you have to get down to the spirit / will / desire / purpose / function of it. You have to be spiritually minded. To know what a thing is you have to know what its spirit/will is - what it does - its purpose.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Cog

[mevosper]

mevosper

My take on it all is that, just as your words are translated from your spirit, all things seen are translated, and so I shouldn't then have to come back and try to decipher what they mean, since they have already been translated - we should have no problems understanding the spirit of one another - the will, purpose, or desire of one another in what we formulate or in what God or anyone has formulated unless they are lying (and those need to be tested, I understand that).

 

 

Exactly, and as you said "unless someone is lying". However, we still need to be sure we are understanding what is being conveyed. We may know what the words, in this example, mean individually, but doesn't it take another level of deciphering to "understand" the spirit of another? or what the thought being conveyed is?

 

Concerning what God is trying to convey, remember his thoughts are deeper than ours and only by His Spirit can they be translated/conveyed/perceived/understood properly. 

 

 

And no, what I'm referring to is not what Saul was doing; and really, did Saul even need to go to the witch? He knew he had been cut off - what was told to him, he already knew. Regardless, I am not seeking to talk to demons, or the dead, but if they do talk, I would like to know what is in their spirit so I can see if they are evil or not without having to deciphering anything. What I'm referring to is seeing the spirit of things as translated into the light by God and others. And not just that, but stay in that mindset, to constantly understand that that is what is happening, instead of losing sight of that and only seeing an object based reality like a piece of wood with a knob on it.

 

 

Yes, actually, what you do want is exactly what Saul was after. An answer through another means. Yes, he knew he had been cut off, but just like a child, he was going to find another way. He was throwing a tantrum like a child because he couldn't have his way. Don't we all do this on occasion? I did this just the other day. I read in another post where someone shook his fist at God.  

 

And again, as you grow in the spirit of the Lord, you will see the spirit of things as you talk about. You will perceive them correctly. That mindset is a growth process. If you don't get anything else from this, at least get that. 

 

 

I guess, ultimately, what I am trying to say is that there is nothing physical about physicality, and I would like to no longer we drawn into that frame of reference. I want to only see that physicality is spiritual, but the supply is not meeting the demand. It is a persistant illusion that I cannot break free of. I want to see things as they are seen when translated. Is that not the point in translation? To share and pass on the understanding of the spirit? So what's with having to decipher everything?

 

Well, unfortunately we live in a physical world and need to deal with it as a physical world. I hate the manipulation that banks have on our economy through money. But I need money to buy a loaf of bread. We can "see" the spiritual side, but we must still respond and live in the physical as well.

 

I perceive that you are an immature christian. Just by your questions, and your responses. You seem to be a child, spiritually, looking to be all grownup. Want to know and see everything before your time. There are 2 ways to do this: 1) familiar spirits like the witch of endor, or 2) grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord which requires milk first then meat. Your fruit will produce in it's time. And if you are interested in maturing in the Lord, you will choose door 2.  

[Cog]

Well, I don't know that God has cut me off.

What is the difference in asking for fellowship, what Saul did, eating the forbidden fruit, and asking God directly?

Almost as bad to ask for fellowship or guidance from others as it is to eat the fruit? I mean, I'm not asking advice from dead people.

I wonder what the differences are in taking the fruit and taking other people's well developed understandings?

Hmmm.

[Qnts2]

Qnts2

Why do you think prophecies and parables are always relating objects to spiritual understandings? If it was to relate something that someone understood to something they didn't understand so that they could have understanding, then why would the true understanding have to almost always be explained after the images or words were given?

Could it be that objects are images of what is seen in the spirit? And those images, like these words, are meant to lead you to the understanding of the spirit, once you understand the language?

Do you think God was just doodling when he made this place? That everything means nothing? That reality is more akin to abstract art than it is to language or words from God?

See, I am not trying to disregard the language or word or image or light or Jesus... he is the way, after all. No, all I'm asking is how to stay focused on that fact - that the objects / light are language - that "physicality" is language which leads to the understanding or translation of the spirit.

But to understand the language you have to get down to the spirit / will / desire / purpose / function of it. You have to be spiritually minded. To know what a thing is you have to know what its spirit/will is - what it does - its purpose.

Again, in my view you are trying to make something into something it is not. You are coming at it from a perspective of far eastern religions, and not middle eastern.

Are all prophesies of physical meant to be interpreted spiritually? No. God created a physical world, with physical people and animals and birds and fish and plants, etc. God said it was good. Gods commands are physical, and a violation of the physical command is sin. The Spiritual interpretation of the commands points to Jesus. But disobeying the commands physically is a sin. So, if a person looked only for a spiritual interpretation but neglected the Physical, they were violating the commands. Unlike Zen, the goal is not to see only the spiritual oneness, but the bible gives ways to live in the physical which are guided by the Spirit. If you do not see the physical, you can not be obedient to God, and if you are not obedient to God, scripture says it shows a lack of love for God.

What you are seeking, and the way you are viewing life, is closer to a Zen Buddhism view, and not a biblical view.

[Cog]

Qnts2

The way you are seeing it is more like a Jewish view than a Christian view. Jesus came and said its not about the letter, and that it is not his words that he spoke. Do you understand what he is saying? Can you hear those words? The light does not speak of himself, but of Father.

God does not change, all along it has been meant to be understood in a spiritual sense, and not a nuts and bolts physical sense...

You are doing it wrong.

[Qnts2]

Qnts2

The way you are seeing it is more like a Jewish view than a Christian view. Jesus came and said its not about the letter, and that it is not his words that he spoke. Do you understand what he is saying? Can you hear those words? The light does not speak of himself, but of Father.

God does not change, all along it has been meant to be understood in a spiritual sense, and not a nuts and bolts physical sense...

You are doing it wrong.

I disagree and think you are missing the meaning. Jesus is Jewish, and saw it the Jewish way. It is all literal and physical first. That has nothing to do with the letter, which has a different meaning then literal and physical.

Letter refers to the law contained in the Mosaic covenant. It was and is literal and physical first, but has an added spiritual dimension which points to Jesus.

However, the verses talking about the letter of the law is talking to believers, who have received the Holy Spirit who is the teacher, and are not bound to the Mosaic Covenant but rather the New Covenant.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

So, what is it to be spiritually minded? It is to have your mind renewed, having the mind of Jesus, and agreeing with God and His purposes. Jesus came in the flesh and lived in the flesh/body. He fed people and cared about their bodies. He healed peoples bodies.

Zen Buddhism looks at everything in a spiritual way, and does not consider the physical, or the plight of the physical bodies. The bible does care about the physical and the plight of physical bodies.

James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

God created us, and all of creation, in a physical form. Physical is not something bad, or to be avoided, or something which is wrong to think in that way. Being spiritually minded does not mean to not think of the physical, but to be view things as God views them. God knows the number of hairs on peoples heads, which is of course physical. God knows people are hungry. God know our physical needs.

Jesus was and still is compassionate. That means Jesus cared about the physical and spiritual well being of people. Jesus fed people and was concerned about them.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Cog,,,,

    As I was reading your OP it reminded me of long ago,I u sed to ask the very same questions & sought the very same "feelings" ,,,,,that lead me straight into the occult & I found exactly w4hat I was looking for except much more that I bargained for,in a very dangerous way..............you see,personally ,,,,what I "thought" was spirit minded,by my own understanding was about as carnal minded as you could ever get ,You did hit the nail on the head in saying that you lack in understanding concerrning spirits,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I will do my best to explain a little further................

      You see,our mind & our hearts are flesh -feelings,sensation  & emotions are from the flesh,,,,,there is a very real & present spirit realm with very real demons in it.they put thoughts in your mind and our flesh feeds off those thoughts ,or state of mind,,,,,these are spirits of pride ,vanity ,lust ,,,we lust after these things ,thinking we are in some special place  higher than the average person,the desire for power,ability to control,being our own god,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is a delusion ....

       To be spirit minded is to be Eternal minded by the Power of the Holy Spirit,after relenquishing one's self to Christ Lordship & asking Him to Save us(earnestly),believing with all your heart that He is Who He is,,,,,,He gives us His Holy Spirit,being indwelled with Him ,we can truly walk in Spirit & in TRUTH with the Heart & Mind of Christ ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,without Christ ,the enemy deceives ....he will offer you power but it is counterfeit,he is an imposter,,,,,,,,yearning for the things you speak of very dangerous without Jesus,the devil insidious & you won't see him coming....the spirit realm is not one you ever want to be caught up in without Gods Full Armor on ,Christs Authority,The Holy Spirit & the Sword of the Spirit on your lips,,,,,,,angels dwell in this realm,heavenly ones or fallen ones,,,,,,thats it my friend and we are made lower than them...................all I can say without turning this thread into something else is,,,,,seek the Truth-the Way,the Truth & the Life........that is Jesus Christ........................be reconciled to God our Father and be Blessed,Glory to God!

                                                                                                                        With love-in Christ,Kwik