Christian perfection

[alisonm328]

Can a Christian, who believes in all the promises of God and the He who is in him is greater than he who is in the world, live the rest of his days blameless and fully sanctfied?

Simply believing alone, no it wouldn't work in my opinion.

[alisonm328]

First let me make my above question clear. I agree with man it is impossible to walk blamessly before our God, but through God all things are possible. If all things are possible through Him who is able to keep us from stumbling, Jude 24-25, and who will provide a way of escape from all temptation, 1 Corinthians 10:13, why do peple believe we can not walk blamessly in this life? This is walking blameless through His Spirit (the Helper, Comforter, Spirit of Truth, Spirit of Grace, etc.), the same Spirit through whom Christ was able to offer Himself without blemmish on the cross. This brings up another question. Could Jesus have sinned having come as a man who was tempted just as we are?

If we cannot walk blameless why did Christ command us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect? Why did Paul pray that we would be able to walk blameless until the Lord returns, Philippians 1:8-11? How could John say "as He is so are we in this world", 1 John 4:15-21? How can we prove ourselves to be blameless and innocent children of God in a perverse generation, Philippians 2:14-16, if we continue to commit willful sin? Why are we told we can extinguish all the flaming arrows of Satan if we have faith, Ephesians 6:16, if we cannot walk without committing sin as a Christian? I have many more questions but I will wait.

Christ was not blameless because of the spirit, he was blameless because he is the only begotten Son of God.

[alisonm328]

"Perfect" people can definitely be accused. Didn't Satan accuse Jesus of being a liar? Then telling him to prove that he was the true Son of God?

Telling someone to prove who they are, is itself an accusation. Satan is definitely the accuser.

The devil will accuse us no matter what because he does not want us to be saved. He will likely try harder on those who are Christ's.

Those people spoken of are brethren according to John. There is nothing a "perfect" person can be accused of. What did Satan accuse Jesus of if that is the case? Show me that in scripture please.

[wingnut-]

 

Curious.  Where do you find that Satan was cast out of heaven at the 5th trumpet?  Granted, it really doesn't change my mind about those who love Christ and Christ being accused of everything under the sun because those who are evil, whose father is Satan, will do anything to accuse us.  

 

Did the Pharisees accuse Christ of wrong doing?  This is a simple yes or no.

 

From what you have written so far, I assume you believe if a person is accused of something then they had to have done something wrong.  If this assumption is incorrect then why do continue to claim those who are perfect cannot be accused?  Just be someone, including satan, makes an accusation it does not mean the person is guilty of what they have been accused.

 

What point are you trying to make?

 

 

Revelation 9 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. ² When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. ³ And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.

 

Revelation 9:¹¹ They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer). ¹² The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.

 

Revelation 12:Therefore rejoice, you heavens

    and you who dwell in them!

But woe to the earth and the sea,

    because the devil has gone down to you!

He is filled with fury,

    because he knows that his time is short.”

 

Yes the pharisees made accusations, but they are not Satan.  And the point I am making is obvious.  Satan accuses the brethren night and day before the throne, and has from the beginning and will continue to do so until the time he is cast out of heaven.  There is not one instance in scripture where Satan accuses Jesus of anything, because there is no accusation to be made against Him, He is perfect.  The brethren are not perfect, this is why accusations are leveled against us day and night.

[Mr Nice]

 

Can a Christian, who believes in all the promises of God and the He who is in him is greater than he who is in the world, live the rest of his days blameless and fully sanctfied?

Simply believing alone, no it wouldn't work in my opinion.

 

 

When I state believe I mean lives according to what God has promised, having faith in God to bring to pass that which He has purposed which is sanctification through the Spirit.  Does this change your opinion?  If not, why not?

[Mr Nice]

 

First let me make my above question clear. I agree with man it is impossible to walk blamessly before our God, but through God all things are possible. If all things are possible through Him who is able to keep us from stumbling, Jude 24-25, and who will provide a way of escape from all temptation, 1 Corinthians 10:13, why do peple believe we can not walk blamessly in this life? This is walking blameless through His Spirit (the Helper, Comforter, Spirit of Truth, Spirit of Grace, etc.), the same Spirit through whom Christ was able to offer Himself without blemmish on the cross. This brings up another question. Could Jesus have sinned having come as a man who was tempted just as we are?

If we cannot walk blameless why did Christ command us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect? Why did Paul pray that we would be able to walk blameless until the Lord returns, Philippians 1:8-11? How could John say "as He is so are we in this world", 1 John 4:15-21? How can we prove ourselves to be blameless and innocent children of God in a perverse generation, Philippians 2:14-16, if we continue to commit willful sin? Why are we told we can extinguish all the flaming arrows of Satan if we have faith, Ephesians 6:16, if we cannot walk without committing sin as a Christian? I have many more questions but I will wait.

Christ was not blameless because of the spirit, he was blameless because he is the only begotten Son of God.

 

 

Heb 9:13-14  For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,  (14)  how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

I don't think it can be said any clearer.  It was through the Spirit that He offered Himself without blemish, it was not because He was the Son of God.  Likewise, we are to prove ourselves to be blameless and innocent children of God.

 

Php 2:12-16  So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;  (13)  for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.  (14)  Do all things without grumbling or disputing;  (15)  so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world,  (16)  holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.

 

 

 

 

[alisonm328]

Oh sorry about my confusion with that.

I believe that is God's will for us,

Hebrews 10:10 "For God's will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time."

Yes we can be made Holy IN CHRIST.

Can a Christian, who believes in all the promises of God and the He who is in him is greater than he who is in the world, live the rest of his days blameless and fully sanctfied?

Simply believing alone, no it wouldn't work in my opinion.

When I state believe I mean lives according to what God has promised, having faith in God to bring to pass that which He has purposed which is sanctification through the Spirit. Does this change your opinion? If not, why not?

[Mr Nice]

 

 

"Perfect" people can definitely be accused. Didn't Satan accuse Jesus of being a liar? Then telling him to prove that he was the true Son of God?

Telling someone to prove who they are, is itself an accusation. Satan is definitely the accuser.

The devil will accuse us no matter what because he does not want us to be saved. He will likely try harder on those who are Christ's.

Those people spoken of are brethren according to John. There is nothing a "perfect" person can be accused of. What did Satan accuse Jesus of if that is the case? Show me that in scripture please.

 

 

Your error is in thinking being accused of something means you are guilty.  A perfect person, one who is keeping the commandments of God through the Spirit cannot not be found guilty, however, many will try to accuse them of wrong doing just like the Pharisees accused Christ of wrong doing.  Satan was the father of the Pharisees according to Jesus so it was satan who was accusing Him.

[alisonm328]

Thank you for this! I can honestly say I've learned something new tonight

First let me make my above question clear. I agree with man it is impossible to walk blamessly before our God, but through God all things are possible. If all things are possible through Him who is able to keep us from stumbling, Jude 24-25, and who will provide a way of escape from all temptation, 1 Corinthians 10:13, why do peple believe we can not walk blamessly in this life? This is walking blameless through His Spirit (the Helper, Comforter, Spirit of Truth, Spirit of Grace, etc.), the same Spirit through whom Christ was able to offer Himself without blemmish on the cross. This brings up another question. Could Jesus have sinned having come as a man who was tempted just as we are?

If we cannot walk blameless why did Christ command us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect? Why did Paul pray that we would be able to walk blameless until the Lord returns, Philippians 1:8-11? How could John say "as He is so are we in this world", 1 John 4:15-21? How can we prove ourselves to be blameless and innocent children of God in a perverse generation, Philippians 2:14-16, if we continue to commit willful sin? Why are we told we can extinguish all the flaming arrows of Satan if we have faith, Ephesians 6:16, if we cannot walk without committing sin as a Christian? I have many more questions but I will wait.

Christ was not blameless because of the spirit, he was blameless because he is the only begotten Son of God.

Heb 9:13-14 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, (14) how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

I don't think it can be said any clearer. It was through the Spirit that He offered Himself without blemish, it was not because He was the Son of God. Likewise, we are to prove ourselves to be blameless and innocent children of God.

Php 2:12-16 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; (13) for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. (14) Do all things without grumbling or disputing; (15) so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, (16) holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.

[rightontime]

2 Timothy 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.