Why did God make hell?

[OneLight]

 

The doctrine of hell as a place of flaming torture for the devil and his angels, and for every lost person who turns up thereafter, cannot be proven from scripture.

The idea of "eternal" flames or "worms that die not" or "smoke that ascends up forever" does not immediately suggest that the material to be burned lasts forever, or that torment lasts forever. It says "the smoke of their torment rises up forever."

Otherwise God cannot or does not destroy the sinner or sin. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil which is sin and sinners who willingly join him. He will not do that until after a judgement, which is only fair.

I'm just starting to realize that not some many people believe in a hell with punishment. I learned that hell was a place of fire and pain. I guess I have even more to learn about, but I'm not sure it changes my question.

What if God made a party town hell that was a pretty awesome place, but still without Gods love? People would still have the choice to be with God or not and they could also choose torture or not. Would it make any difference?

I have to get some sleep. Have a good night guys and thanks for all your help!

 

 

The only stupid question is the one not asked.  Saying that, I have to ask if you have ever studied scripture?  Hell is a holding place until the Great White Throne Judgment, where hell and death will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, along with Lucifer (Satan), the Beast, the False Prophet, all the fallen angles and anyone who's names are not found in the Book of Life.

[Kan]

Years ago I noticed while observing the different church beliefs, that any issues about death and the afterlife, have many variations.

I don't consider they are all correct, but each one is based on some truth. It's like eating cereal without milk.

 

Depending on what view is held about death and the afterlife, subsequent ideas about things like the end of the world, the resurrection, judgement day, heaven and hell etc. have to fit in.

 

All religions both from the east and west, as well as tribal beliefs and paganism in general, have either one of two basic views of the afterlife.

The one view talks about life on a physical day to day level only, so that when someone dies they return to dust as God says they do.

There is no 'spiritualist' versions in their beliefs. It is a scientific approach to the matter in some ways.

 

The other view is that humans have an inherent life which never ends, and somehow frees it self from the body after death.

This view opens up a whole spectrum of ideas about what the ghost does, whether it inhabits an animal or becomes a star or goes to hell, whatever.

 

The latter view is global, the former is in the minority as taught in the Bible, by the apostles, by the early christian church, and by the reformers. 

Catholics in general have held onto the pagan idea introduced into the church when Rome collapsed, to help strengthen the church powers over a mixed populace.

 

In modern Christendom, we have adopted the common view and many doctrines are formulated around this concept of the after life.

[Keith]

As other have said, hell was created for the devil and his angels.

 

Matthew 25:41, "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels".

 

 

So, if it was created for the devil and his angels, why do many people go there, too?  Because the Bible says that children will live with their father.  We are either a child of God or child of the devil.  Here's the distinction between the two.

 

1 John 3:10, "By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother."

 

John 8:44-47, "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

 

 

But, thank God that He provided THE way, THE truth and THE life, through His Son so that WHOSOEVER WILL can receive forgiveness and eternal life with God! 

 

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

The choice is ours.  Every person is solely responsible for their own choice... and the consequences of that choice.

[ayin jade]

 

The doctrine of hell as a place of flaming torture for the devil and his angels, and for every lost person who turns up thereafter, cannot be proven from scripture.

The idea of "eternal" flames or "worms that die not" or "smoke that ascends up forever" does not immediately suggest that the material to be burned lasts forever, or that torment lasts forever. It says "the smoke of their torment rises up forever."

Otherwise God cannot or does not destroy the sinner or sin. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil which is sin and sinners who willingly join him. He will not do that until after a judgement, which is only fair.

I'm just starting to realize that not some many people believe in a hell with punishment. I learned that hell was a place of fire and pain. I guess I have even more to learn about, but I'm not sure it changes my question.

What if God made a party town hell that was a pretty awesome place, but still without Gods love? People would still have the choice to be with God or not and they could also choose torture or not. Would it make any difference?

I have to get some sleep. Have a good night guys and thanks for all your help!

 

 

Thing is, God is quite clear in the bible that He has not made a party town. He has made a place that is miserable for everyone there. 

[rightontime]

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.

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[Keith]

As I read through this thread, I find people are trying very hard to shape the scriptures around their own thoughts, their understanding, and what they want to be true.  I see a lot of "What if..." and "I don't think..." type statements.  Eternity is NOT a What If game and it's NOT dependent on what we believe about it.  It is what God says it is in His Word.  And He's very clear about it. 

 

Granted, people are free to believe whatever they want.  People are allowed to be wrong.  But you can't do that and call it Christianity because it's what YOU want to be true.

 

The very nature of truth is that there can only be ONE truth.  And, if that truth has any bearing on our eternities, which it does, then it behooves us to find out exactly what that truth is, regardless of whether we like it or not, stop arguing about it, and conform to it... and STOP trying to conform the truth to our way of thinking.

 

Hell is eternal.  The Bible is MORE than clear on this issue.  That's why it uses words like "eternal" and "forever and ever" and "everlasting."  How those words can be confusing is a mystery to me.  But just SAY for the sake of argument that hell is not eternal.  What benefit is that to anyone?  Hell is still hell, separation from Jesus.  It's not a party town.  Satan doesn't rule and reign there.  It's still torment beyond comprehension and no one in their right mind wants to experience it for ANY length of time. 

 

Our time is better spent KEEPING OUT of hell altogether, and snatching others off the wide road that's leading them there.  To argue how long hell lasts is an inane waste of time that benefits nothing and nobody.  If you believe hell is temporary, what do you say to unbelievers?  "Don't worry about it.  It won't last forever.  When it's done you'll just vanish altogether from existence."  That's ridiculous.

 

EDITED TO ADD THE WORDS OF  JESUS HIMSELF:  Matthew 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” 

 

Eternal means eternal, not temporary.  Basic English.  The torment of the wicked in hell is as eternal as the joy of the righteous in heaven.

[Riverwalker]

As I read through this thread, I find people are trying very hard to shape the scriptures around their own thoughts, their understanding, and what they want to be true.  I see a lot of "What if..." and "I don't think..." type statements.  Eternity is NOT a What If game and it's NOT dependent on what we believe about it.  It is what God says it is in His Word.  And He's very clear about it. 

 

Granted, people are free to believe whatever they want.  People are allowed to be wrong.  But you can't do that and call it Christianity because it's what YOU want to be true.

 

The very nature of truth is that there can only be ONE truth.  And, if that truth has any bearing on our eternities, which it does, then it behooves us to find out exactly what that truth is, regardless of whether we like it or not, stop arguing about it, and conform to it... and STOP trying to conform the truth to our way of thinking.

 

Hell is eternal.  The Bible is MORE than clear on this issue.  That's why it uses words like "eternal" and "forever and ever" and "everlasting."  How those words can be confusing is a mystery to me.  But just SAY for the sake of argument that hell is not eternal.  What benefit is that to anyone?  Hell is still hell, separation from Jesus.  It's not a party town.  Satan doesn't rule and reign there.  It's still torment beyond comprehension and no one in their right mind wants to experience it for ANY length of time. 

 

Our time is better spent KEEPING OUT of hell altogether, and snatching others off the wide road that's leading them there.  To argue how long hell lasts is an inane waste of time that benefits nothing and nobody.  If you believe hell is temporary, what do you say to unbelievers?  "Don't worry about it.  It won't last forever.  When it's done you'll just vanish altogether from existence."  That's ridiculous.

 

EDITED TO ADD THE WORDS OF  JESUS HIMSELF:  Matthew 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” 

 

Eternal means eternal, not temporary.  Basic English.  The torment of the wicked in hell is as eternal as the joy of the righteous in heaven.

 

The punishment is eternal in that it last forever.

 

the torment doesn't

 

Hell is not forever, it is done away with in the lake of fire

 

Revelation 20 

The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

[Hall7]

If we let our spirits become evil, then evil becomes part of us because we allowed it to happen out of our own free will. God will not accept any evil spirits in His kingdom, whether it be an evil spirit of a man or one of a demon.  The spirit/soul ends up where it belongs according to what we have nurtured it with. Just as a lamb who belongs with lambs and a wolf who belongs with wolves.

[Fez]

 

What is a choice if it is not between one or another?  In everything we know of this live, there are opposites.  Hot/cold, up/down, in/out, light/dark, etc.  What would you replace hell with when choosing between heaven or hell?  God or Satan? 

 

As for why not have a second chance, to go through life again and again until we get it right.  What makes you think one would "get it right" if they did not get it right the first time around?  We have a lifetime to consider Gods word.

But I can choose between things that are not opposites too. Like if I want mashed potatoes or tomato soup or if I want the lights totally off or just dim. I mean I see what you are saying that this life is our test so there isn't a point in giving us another chance, but I don't see the point in putting people in hell either.

 

I don't like the word test. Life is not a test. Eternal life is simply a choice, it is not a test you have to pass. All you have to do is say yes to Jesus. It's that simple.

[rightontime]

Salvation is of the Lord - Changing a heart of stone into a heart of flesh, which allows a person to believe and follow Jesus.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Even faith is God’s gracious gift to His elect. Jesus said, “No one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father” (John 6:65). “Nor does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him” (Matt. 11:27). Therefore no one who is saved has anything to boast about (Eph. 2:8-9). “Salvation is from the Lord” (Jonah 2:9).

Decisionism in Christianity is the belief that a person is saved by coming forward, raising the hand, saying a prayer, believing a doctrine, making a lordship commitment, or some other external, human act, which is taken as the equivalent to, and proof of, the miracle of inward conversion. It is believed that a person is saved through the mere means of external decision and that performing one of these human actions also gives sufficient evidence of regeneration. Many who do not use an "invitation" still hold a form of "decisionism" that Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones called "Sandemanianism" (Banner of Truth Trust, 1987, "Puritans: Their Origins and Successors").

In contrast, Conversion is the result of that work of the Holy Spirit which draws a lost sinner to Jesus Christ for justification and regeneration, and changes the sinner's standing before God from lost to saved, imparting divine life to the depraved soul, thus producing a new direction in the life of the convert. The objective side of salvation is justification. The subjective side of salvation is regeneration. The result is conversion.