What exactly is grace?

[JohnS]

The children of Israel were saved, not because of their own merits, but because of the blood of the lamb. And the Egyptians perished, not because of their evil deeds, but because they did not have the blood of the lamb.

We must remember that on Passover night in Egypt, there was one dead in every house. The one that died in the house of an Israelite was a lamb; whereas the one that died in the house of an Egyptian was a person. There will always be one dead in every house.

Many people have the idea that salvation is not only by God's grace, but also by our works: God's grace---plus our works---equals salvation. The natural man is always seeking to get saved by his own efforts.

[Guest shilou]

Grace undeserved Luke 23:40 But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong. The he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."  Now this man had not done a thing to deserve paradise, but it was extended anyway. It was though based on his belief and therefore is merited even if it is not deserved.

Grace is something recieved not earned. Luke 15:11-31 the story of the prodigal son, too long to put here so everyone can just go read it. This son did nothing to deserve the feast of celebration given by his father, all he did was return home that's it. Grace may also come from the Father even when the son does not come to him. Paul on Damacus road. Acts 9

So we have here Grace that is extended to one who believes, one who simply returns, and one who is called. God's mercy, love and forgiveness is extended to anyone He chooses.

Can grace be frustrated, by all means when we continue to sin. Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but uner grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey-whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

But that is not the end of the story. Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

It is also worthy to note here that the man on the cross took note of his sinful nature. He admitted he was rightfully condemned and knew the nature of himself. Also the prodigal son took note of his own foolishness and returned home. This is the point where we come home, we acknowledge all that we are and all that we do is not working. It is at this point we go to bended knee and cry out to the one and only God. This is where Grace is extended to us and we become willing participants with God.

I believe we can walk away from Grace by this new thing of the feel good religions. Revelation 2:4,5 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

Ok I have a question here. Romans 5:7,8 Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him. So through grace all our past sins which we have repented of are forgiven. What about ongoing sin, does it fall under the same grace or is this different?

Blind I have to say this is a challenge, my gift is speaking to those who do not believe. In this I have to paint pictures from the scriptures that draw people through their heart to God. Using scripture in this manner does not work with them because they don't believe scripture was written by God. The Holy Spirit puts a song in my heart and the words on my lips to speak to this population. I can't reach them with scripture so I use real life stories, mine, and others and speak to them from the heart. But this is a good experience, not that I would ever want to give up the big pictures God shows me. You had mentioned walking in the Spirit. Can we do a thread like that after we complete this, it would be interesting how everyone puts that together by the scriptures.

In Yashua's Love

Shilou

[nebula]

Hi!

There's something I've been thinking about saying for a while, but I haven't been sure how to word it best. OK, I still don't, but I might as well put it down before it gets too late.

One thing I have learned is that there are some words which you just cannot understand with a formal definition.  Knowing how to define a word cognitively and knowing the apply the word are two different things.  (Hey, there's a reason Jesus spoke in parables to define the kingdom of God!)

Well, I don't know any parable to define grace, but I can share an application I utilize.

When in a stressful situation, I used to pray, "Lord, give me patience!"  But as many of you know, praying for patience only means you will be put into situations where you are forced to choose patience so that patience will be worked into your life!  OK, so I have learned that when in such a situation, praying for patience may do its work in the long run, but it will not help me endue the current trial (if anything, it may increase the intensity of the trial!).  So, what do I do?

I heard a sermon about speaking, "Grace!" into a situation (based on the verse another poster mentioned on the first page where Zeru-somebody was either given or gave the command - I forget which   - to speak, "Grace! Grace!" over the rock).  So, I tried that.  I was in a stressful situation in which I needed patience, and so I asked God for the grace to be patient (or rather, I asked Him for His grace in me).  It truly made a difference in my attitude!  (and attitude has a lot to do with patience  :: )

Hope this helps!

[Guest shilou]

Hi Neb,

Actually I think the parable of the prodigal son speaks perfectly of Grace. I think by reading everything here we are mixing grace in with walking in faith, which should be a whole different topic. The Prodigal son could have chosen to go back to his old life style after his Father extended grace with love, we don't know that he did. But we do know how life works and there are many choices the young man would have had to make the days following the party. Such as continueing to live with his father, being part of planting and harvesting, etc. Grace was extended through the father saying I love you no matter what you have done, and I forgive you for all of that and the pain I experienced in your absense, I welcome you back into my home. The one thing the son did before coming home was to recognize his life as miserable and he remembered better times with the father, so he made a decision to return.

It seems to me we really complicate all of this now days. In the times of Jesus the majority did not know the scriptures, but they knew truth in their hearts when they heard it. Simple people understood the simple words of Christ, we at times turn this into something only a very well read scholar could get. Your example of patience is good, and I know it well. But it would be better used in walking in faith, I am already saved by the grace of God, so now because of that I desire to walk with God in a Christ like manner, because of that I would ask for patience.  I know in my heart patience in my dealings is pleasing to God. I know that because the Holy Spirit put it upon my heart to desire and ask for patience. If it wasn't for the ministering of the Spirit I would just run around and justify all my acts of impatience. So often the Spirit of God is pressing in upon us to make a right decision or repent of a wrong one. We are so dependant upon our own reasoning that we often think it is we who is doing all of this. If we let our pride slip off into the abyss we can hear the Spirits voice in even the most mundane of situations. The example I always give is this. I get into my car and pull out, before I get too far I have this thought put on your seatbelt. I say thank you because I have come to recognize the prompt of the Spirit. I get yelled at by someone and I want to respond in kind, I get this prompt hold your tongue. So I stand silent and thank Him for being with me always. All of that happens after Grace is extended and accepted. But I digress from the topic and we should probably start a new tread unless everyone here feels otherwise.

In Yashua's Love

Shilou

[tsth]

I think by reading everything here we are mixing grace in with walking in faith, which should be a whole different topic.

I disagree shilou, I believe they must go hand in hand for the fullness of Christ.

Here is what the Lord lead me to this morning.

[BlindSeeker]

Shilou,

Greetings.

[Guest shilou]

I cannot give anymore scripture here guys because even the scripture I give is added to and expanded beyond it's meaning. Grace is a free will gift, faith is something that grows over time from a seed which is planted. Let's do as you ask Blind and move on to the workings of the Holy Spirit and I think if we go through that we can get back to grace and faith through that study.

And by the way what I meant by separating grace and faith is not that both are not part of our salvation. Grace is something that God gives us freely, faith is the part we are actively involved in. All of it ties into the works of the Spirit and perhaps we need to start there to get a full understanding of both. Christ dying on the cross was definitely an undeserved gift, I get the feeling you think you deserve God's grace because of all the hard work you put into studying the scriptures, is that a good call? So how about it new thread, study the works of the Spirit and walking in the Spirit and see where he leads us. Blind do you want to start it?

In Yashua's love

Shilou

[tsth]

I just wanted to comment on a couple of things.

First, I guess I'm slow in responding, but just curious JohnS.

[wordsower]

Was this just a flippant remark on the Psalmist part?  

Suzanne,  David was under the law.

"You have estranged yourself from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by the law, you have fallen from grace." Galatians 5:4

Sigh :c2:

If you keep the focus on what you have to do, He can never do anything, let go and let God!

What you do does not change who you are in Christ--Who you are in Christ changes what you do.

[Guest shilou]

Tsth this is a thread about Grace so why turn it into a thread about the law? Just to go with your thinking the scripture's are true, but the way to hear God's word is not just by reading scripture. I hear God in poem's, music, preaching, and whispers in the night when I'm speaking with Him. I am capable of reading english because I was taught it in school and God gave me the ability to learn. I am not capable of reading scripture and understanding the real truth in it without the Holy Spirit. God's laws, and words, and knowledge is written upon my heart. It is only such because God has bestowed His grace upon me, and without it I am nothing but walking talking dead flesh. When God grace was put upon me a mustard seed of faith began to grow and it is still in the growth part and some days it just jumps up and blossoms as I respond to the call the Spirit puts upon my heart. I don't deserve any of this, there is not one thing I could do here in this place to deserve this wonderful gift, but I still was given it. I couldn't study enough, I could know scripture backwards and forewards and still it would not be enough. I could preach from the highest buildings, and scream to everyone I know repent for the kingdom of heaven is near and still it would be nothing worthy of the gift of grace I have been given. I could die a martyrs death and still it would not be worthy of what He has blessed me with. Can you hear my heart here, can you feel the Spirit of God within me? It's there if you would just let go and hear Him speak.

In Yashua's Love

Shilou