The Seals, Trumpets & Bowls Timeline

[Guest]

 

Ummm....Bo interjected the Rapture into the discussion. Perhaps you should take a closer look at her chart in post #2.

Taking the Revelation chronologically, a rough timeline of major prophetic events looks like this. We find the rapture of the Church in Rev. 4-5.  Daniel’s 70th Week brings the wrath of God with the seal judgments in Rev. 6 and the trumpet judgments in Rev. 8-11. Satan is expelled from heaven in Rev. 12 and the Great Tribulation begins in Rev. 13 with the bowl judgments coming in Rev. 15-16.  All the world’s religious, commercial and governmental systems are destroyed in Rev. 17-18 and the Lord returns in Rev. 19 to set up the Millennial Kingdom on Earth and bring the New Jerusalem down from Heaven in Rev. 20-22.

 

It might have been in her chart but you entered it into discussion.  The topic was seals, trumpets, and bowls.  Anyway, rapture aside, are you going to answer the question in post #3?  If you don't want to engage in meaningful discussion, that's fine.  You don't have to.  But please don't just declare things to be true unless you're willing to provide support.

 

Did you even bother to read what I posted. How many scripture references does it contain? Is scripture in context not support enough? Typical responses from someone who refuses to think.

[missmuffet]

 

I wonder if that is the case, why the apostles suffered death?  And why there are people dying for their faith right now?  Where is their escape?  Why are they unworthy?

Because the Rapture has not occurred yet; because Jesus never said there would not be pain and death and tribulation in this world; Their escape is absent from the body, present with the Lord. They are worthy of salvation, they are saved. Unfortunately, Satan is still the god of this world and evil exists. Your logic ignores everything that Christ said would happen to us in His name. Paul told us that first the dead in Christ will rise and than we who are alive will be instantly transformed into our incorruptable bodies and meet Him in the air where He swaid that He would take us to the house that His Father was preparing for us. Smart-alac comments such as what you made is the reason that people who believe as I do, who believe the Word of GOD, do not waste our time, after a certain point (like illogical, smart-alec comments) debating those who will not see. I'm done.

 

Well said Parker  bravo....bravo.

[Last Daze]

 

 

Ummm....Bo interjected the Rapture into the discussion. Perhaps you should take a closer look at her chart in post #2.

Taking the Revelation chronologically, a rough timeline of major prophetic events looks like this. We find the rapture of the Church in Rev. 4-5.  Daniel’s 70th Week brings the wrath of God with the seal judgments in Rev. 6 and the trumpet judgments in Rev. 8-11. Satan is expelled from heaven in Rev. 12 and the Great Tribulation begins in Rev. 13 with the bowl judgments coming in Rev. 15-16.  All the world’s religious, commercial and governmental systems are destroyed in Rev. 17-18 and the Lord returns in Rev. 19 to set up the Millennial Kingdom on Earth and bring the New Jerusalem down from Heaven in Rev. 20-22.

 

It might have been in her chart but you entered it into discussion.  The topic was seals, trumpets, and bowls.  Anyway, rapture aside, are you going to answer the question in post #3?  If you don't want to engage in meaningful discussion, that's fine.  You don't have to.  But please don't just declare things to be true unless you're willing to provide support.

 

Did you even bother to read what I posted. How many scripture references does it contain? Is scripture in context not support enough? Typical responses from someone who refuses to think.

 

 

So I guess that's a "no" on post 3.

[Last Daze]

 

 

 

 

Bo is correct. First there is the Rapture of the Church. Then comes the judgments. The rebuilding of the Temple happens after Ezekiel 38 & 39, after the Rapture and during the first 3^1/2 years of the Tribulation, as permitted by treaty by the Anti-Christ.

 

The scripture clearly identifies the resurrection as taking place on the last day.

 

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.  John 6:44

He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.  John 6:54

 

And there are several others.

 

Please tell me Parker1 when this last day is and what it is the last day of...according to scripture.

 

Let’s see if we can put this bit of incorrect interpretation to rest once and for all.  There is no Biblical basis for connecting either the 7th Trumpet of Rev.11:15 or the trumpet call of Matt. 24:31 with the last trump of 1 Cor. 15:52.  In the case of Rev. 11:15 this was originally done to support the old mid-trib rapture position but the truth is it’s never called the last trump in the Bible, nor is it the last trumpet blown before the 2nd Coming (Matt. 24:31).  It’s simply the last in the series of seven trumpets in the 2nd set of Revelation judgments and is always called the 7th Trumpet, never the last trump.

The term last trump refers to the fact that the trumpet call of God from 1 Thes. 4:16 will signal the end of the Church Age, at which time the Church will disappear from Earth.  In 1 Thes. 1:10 Paul had already said Jesus would rescue the Church from the time and place of God’s wrath (which will have begun during Rev. 6), so he would have been contradicting himself by referring to the 7th Trumpet in Rev. 11:15 as the last trump.

Some try to tie the last trump reference in 1 Cor 15:52 to the mention of a trumpet in Matt. 24:31 to justify a rapture after the end of the Great Tribulation. This also contradicts the promises Paul made to the Church.  The trumpet of Matt 24:31 is blown to gather the Lord’s elect from one end of the heavens to the other, so it refers to those who are already with the Lord. The companion verse in Mark 13:27 doesn’t mention a trumpet, but does say the elect on Earth (Tribulation believers) will be gathered together at this time as well.

But both passages clearly describe the Lord in His 2nd Coming in power and glory on His way to Earth in full view of everyone to establish His Kingdom.  This is different in every respect from Paul’s claims in 1 Cor. 15:51-52, 1 Thes. 4:16-17 (supported by John and Isaiah) that in an instant the Lord will snatch believers off the Earth to meet Him in the air and then hide us in His Father’s house (John 14:2-3) to protect us from the coming wrath (Isaiah 26:20).

Matt. 24:31 and Mark 13:27 describe a call to His elect to join Him in the Kingdom.  Since the Church will have already been raptured and housed in our “mansions in the sky” Matt. 24:31 could simply be referring to the resurrection of Israel (Daniel 12:1-2) and Tribulation martyrs (Rev. 20:4) both of which happen at the time of the 2nd Coming.  Mark 13:27 could be adding Tribulation believers who survive the judgments and will enter the Kingdom live (Matt. 25:34) which also happens at the time of the 2nd Coming. But neither of them can be describing the rapture of the church.

 

 

No one even said anything about the last trump.  I think I understand why you don't engage in rapture discussions.  Carry on.

 

I don't engage after a certain, which is after I give the Rapture position and the people I'm having the discussion are not interested in what I have to say but only want to defend their position and ridicule anyone elses position as wrong. The only reason I even addressed you again was to tell you that you don't understand as much as you think you do. You read that whole thing and what you came away with was "the last trump." Your mind is closed and not open to any kind of meaningful discussion. Typical of people who can't understand the Rapture concept nor the Scriptures (in context). So, you can carry on yourself. And please don't quote me again. I know what I have said. Thanks.

 

 

I'm sorry you jump to conclusions like that.  I asked one simple question (with two parts).  That's all.  Still no relevant answer.  Please don't presume that you know me well enough to make those judgments about me.