Sevenseas Posted February 17, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2015 Sevenseas, Qnts IS wrong and so are you. The Bible knows NOTHING of some private prayer language in tongues. If such a thing were real, there would likely be a discussion on it. But the Bible never discusses that. It is just a made up concept by the Charismatics/Pentecostals. The Greek word used for "tongues" in I Cor. 14 is the same word used in Acts 2. There is no difference. The gibberish that goes on in some churches is just bogus. It is not at all the gift of tongues in the New Testament. Glossa, the word used for tongues in I Cor. 14 is the same word used six times in Acts, particularly Acts 2. There is no distinction between a known language a heavenly language. The modern tongues movement is not a biblical phenomenon and there is certainly no special prayer language. It is actually yourself that knows nothing about praying in tongues. I mean honestly and respectfully shiloh, you are doing exactly what you have said many times to others ... you are refusing what the word actually states and interpreting it to fit in with your own belief and or faith You are a cessationist and I would not expect you to state other then what you have already stated, irregardless of any proof texts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 a cessationist.... Have Prophecies Really Ceased? And Has Knowledge? Or Tongues? Love never ends. But if there are prophecies, they will be set aside; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be set aside. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside. 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 (NET) ~ The Now For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:11 (NET) And The Forever And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love. 1 Corinthians 13:12 (NET) ~ So Beloved, With Tongues For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 1 Corinthians 14:14-18 (KJV) Or Without Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 1 Corinthians 14:19 (KJV) Stand I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. Ephesians 3:16-19 (NIV) Fast For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:4-5 (KJV) Love. Your Brother Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2015 This thread is going turning into personal attacks. Either stop or people will be banned from the thread. 1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted February 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Is this verse speaking of praying in tongues? And is there anyone with a lot of experience with speaking in tongues that would be willing to chat through email because I have a lot of questions about it? Yes, when Paul talks about praying in the Spirit, he is talking about praying in tongues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted February 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I do not even know what speaking in tongues means. I thought it was a language that everybody could understand and that if anybody hears it, they hear it in their own language. Otherwise, what's the point of it? God understands our hearts and he understands all languages, so why would anybody need to speak in tongues? When we are praying in tongues, it is Holy Spirit speaking to God deep things that our minds have no awareness of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Sevenseas, the entire notion of praying in tongues is a myth built on ONE verse. There is no teaching on that subject. It is simply written into the Bible and assumed to be true. If there were a teaching on it, it would be different. None of your proof texts demonstrate anything about praying in tongues. And you have a pretty poor idea of what constitutes "proof texts" when all you're doing is peppering me with the same verse in multiple translations. The same word that used for tongues in Acts in the same word used in I Cor. 14. That is indisputable. I'm sorry, but the gibberish that people pray in private is just gibberish and meaningless. Speaking in tongues was a gift that was meant for unbelievers, and was the ability to speak in a foreign language. It was interpreted in the presence of unbelievers to prove the gift was from God. I don't see where you can claim that I am doing what I criticize others for doing when it comes to exegesis. There is no basis for praying in tongues as a private prayer language. Tongues is meaningless apart from being done in a congregational setting. That's the only setting in which it is discussed. You can't provide any biblical example of a private prayer language anywhere in the NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted February 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2015 Speaking in tongues was a gift that was meant for unbelievers, and was the ability to speak in a foreign language. It was interpreted in the presence of unbelievers to prove the gift was from God. Just out of curiosity, how can a unbeliever receive a gift from the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is for believers, as are the gifts. Maybe I am misunderstanding you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 It was meant for unbelievers in terms of being a sign that the apostle's messages were from God. Just like Jesus' miracles affirmed His claims to be God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted February 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2015 It was meant for unbelievers in terms of being a sign that the apostle's messages were from God. Just like Jesus' miracles affirmed His claims to be God. Ok, thanks for clarifying. I thought that might be what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted February 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2015 Sevenseas, the entire notion of praying in tongues is a myth built on ONE verse. There is no teaching on that subject. It is simply written into the Bible and assumed to be true. If there were a teaching on it, it would be different. None of your proof texts demonstrate anything about praying in tongues. And you have a pretty poor idea of what constitutes "proof texts" when all you're doing is peppering me with the same verse in multiple translations. The same word that used for tongues in Acts in the same word used in I Cor. 14. That is indisputable. I'm sorry, but the gibberish that people pray in private is just gibberish and meaningless. Speaking in tongues was a gift that was meant for unbelievers, and was the ability to speak in a foreign language. It was interpreted in the presence of unbelievers to prove the gift was from God. I don't see where you can claim that I am doing what I criticize others for doing when it comes to exegesis. There is no basis for praying in tongues as a private prayer language. Tongues is meaningless apart from being done in a congregational setting. That's the only setting in which it is discussed. You can't provide any biblical example of a private prayer language anywhere in the NT. Sevenseas, the entire notion of praying in tongues is a myth built on ONE verse. There is no teaching on that subject. It is simply written into the Bible and assumed to be true. If there were a teaching on it, it would be different. Praying in tongues is not a myth. I understand you do not believe the spiritual gifts are still active and therefore you say that speaking in tongues is a myth. I Cor. distinctly uses the phrase PRAYING IN TONGUES and your response is simply to dismiss this fact. The chapter is comparing the gift of prophecy and the gift of speaking in tongues (V 2-5) as follows: Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongueadoes not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,b but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,c unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified. Here, we clearly see that people do speak in tongues to God, without interpretation and not as a sign to unbelievers. Speaking to God in tongues is not a sign to unbelievers. You indicate that tongues are only a sign for unbelievers but the Bible says something very different from what you state Paul says he would like everyone he is writing to, to speak in tongues. Should everyone start speaking in tongues in church with no interpretation? Well, that would seem to go against doing everything decently and in order and allowing people to speak one at a time...3 at the most. Speaking in tongues...that is when alone and worshipping or singing apparently edifies the one employing that gift through the endowment of the Holy Spirit. Its the most natural thing when a person is filled with the Holy Spirit ..and again do not confuse this with being sealed by the Holy Spirit when one is born again. So Paul actually puts a great value on the personal use of tongues. V 14 of this same chapter is the verse that plainly addresses praying in tongues in a manner that suggests this is a common occurence.This verse has been interpreted that way in almost every Bible published as I have already posted... there are Bibles on that list I never heard of, yet each one attests to the same thing...praying in tongues is IN the Bible and you cannot take it out of there. You can ignore it...but there it is anyway. None of your proof texts demonstrate anything about praying in tongues. And you have a pretty poor idea of what constitutes "proof texts" when all you're doing is peppering me with the same verse in multiple translations. There is no need to insult me shiloh. I actually have a pretty good grasp of what I am talking about here and as far as peppering you with the same verse over and over in multiple translations, I am demonstrating that even those who believe the spiritual gifts are no longer operative, STILL TRANSLATE that verse to include praying in tongues. I daresay neither of us are experts in ancient Greek...and translating word for word is not the ideal way to go either as a literal translation in this manner looses the intent...much like say German to English or French to English or Spanish to English. English is actually a very limited language compared to ancient Greek or modern Greek and for that matter, to many languages today. I hope I don't have to bring the example of the word 'love' which we spell one way and use indiscriminately to say the same thing about our favorite ice cream or our husband or wife. Greek, has a 'love' word for every occasion. I am sure you know that, but I bring it up to illustrate the problems in trying to transliterate the Greek to English. On top of that, the NT is not modern Greek...so one would have to be a scholar of an ancient language and adept at keeping the original intent of said language. I conclude, therefore, that even though you are adamant about what you state, it actually is only your opinion with regards to praying in tongues. The same word that used for tongues in Acts in the same word used in I Cor. 14. That is indisputable. I'm sorry, but the gibberish that people pray in private is just gibberish and meaningless. Now how would you know that? How would you know that myself and millions of others through the ages...even if you give credit for the authenticity of the gift of speaking in tongues( I am guessing you may not believe it to be still in use) you still omit praying in tongues as you state that the Holy Spirit is not employed in that manner....have been making fools of ourselves when we think we are praying in tongues and just what kind of light would that shed on God with all the sincere hearts turned His way? You would have thought He would have tapped us all on the shoulder, politely cleared His throat, and said "uh...kids...this is gibberish" .... As I have from time to time also received the English version of my prayers...or I shall say the intent of what I have been praying in tongues...and each and every single time things were exactly as had been shown me, are you going to state it was the devil who enlightened me? Listen, I'm not trying to be smart here. I am being sincere and anyone who prays in tongues and reads this knows just what I am writing about. Further, and also with sincerity, it might be better if you refrain from saying we are all speaking gibberish. Speaking in tongues was a gift that was meant for unbelievers, and was the ability to speak in a foreign language. It was interpreted in the presence of unbelievers to prove the gift was from God. That, is a gross over-simplification of speaking in tongues. The use of tongues as a sign is clearly indicated...in fact, that was exactly what happened on the day of Pentecost. BUT the NT has far more examples and teaching on tongues being employed both in a congregation and personally....tongues is both a sign AND a spiritual gift. What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. Paul says not to forbid speaking in tongues...he states if there is no interpreter, simply to speak in tongues to yourself and to God. Why are people speaking to themself? FOR EDIFICATION... YOUR SPIRIT PRAYS EVEN IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND AS THE SPIRIT OF GOD KNOWS THE MIND OF GOD AND PRAYS ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF GOD And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Romans 8:27 This is another verse that speaks of praying in tongues but I know that not everyone agrees that is so...however I Cor. 14:14 EXPLICITLY uses the term 'praying in tongues'. However, Paul also lists tongues among the spiritual gifts and we know that Acts records incidence of believers receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues...OUTSIDE OF CHURCH...and at one point 12 were all speaking at one time...the Bible records no interpretation...they were addressing God as the Bible states we do when we emply that gift personally as God has granted us the privelege of doing...remember, He does not force this on anyone and I am not of the opinion that unless you speak in tongues you are not saved..the Bible never states that. There are different kinds of gifts but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. (1 Cor. 12:4-5) Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms. (1 Pet. 4:10) Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. (Romans 12:4-6a) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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