Thoughts on the False Prophet and Judas

[Last Daze]

I'm curious as to what other people think about the possibility of the false prophet being Judas raised from the dead.  I'm not dogmatic about this at all but recently I've come across things that I find......compelling.  I wonder if others have considered this possibility and what the results of their consideration are, if any.

 

What I've found.....

 

Judas was referred to as the son of perdition, the same title as the false prophet.  Notice the definite article "the".

 

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.  John 17:12

 

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thessalonians 2:3

 

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Satan entered Judas.  The false prophet speaks like a dragon (Satan is pictured as a red dragon in Rev 12).  Notice also that the false prophet comes up out of the earth.  A possible allusion to a "raising from the dead"?  Also, the false prophet has two horns.  Judas "A" and Judas "B"?

 

Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.  Luke 22:3

 

Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?”  John 6:70

 

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.  Revelation 13:11

 

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,   2 Thessalonians 2:8-9

 

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It seems that there is something that people are in wonder of concerning the false prophet, that he "was".  The beast being mentioned in this passage is the fallen angel (prince of Rome) who isn't visible; however, the false prophet is his mouthpiece.

 

“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come."  Revelation 17:8

 

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Based on some articles I've read Judas hanged himself above the Valley of Hinnom on the edge of a cliff and later was cut down or fell down into the valley.  The term Gehenna is derived from that valley.

 

There are three spellings used for Judas...Ioudan, Ioudas, and Iouda.

 

A reference to Judas of Gehenna could be Ioudan (535) Geenna (131).  I'm no greek scholar so this might not hold under scrutiny but I thought it was interesting.

 

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Also, I find this reference somewhat mysterious.

 

And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”  Acts 1:24-25

 

His own place?

 

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Anyway, I'd be interested in thoughts on the subject.  There just seems to be a lot of intriguing things there.

[wingnut-]

You bring up some interesting points, will have to think and pray on this.  God bless you.

[WilliamL]

What I've found.....

... Judas was referred to as the son of perdition, the same title as the false prophet.  Notice the definite article "the".

 

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.  John 17:12

 

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thessalonians 2:3

You provide no scriptural evidence that says the Son of Perdition is the False Prophet. You just presume it from these passages. In fact, they are two different persons: the Latter-Day Son of Perdition comes and perishes well before the Beast and False Prophet appear on the scene.

Here is an article I wrote about the soon coming and soon demise of the Son of Perdition, with which I assume you will disagree because of its sequence of events. But others may find it instructive:

 

 

The Son of Perdition is a Patsy

 

In 1963, when Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested, he asked the police what he was being charged with. They told him the murder of President Kennedy. He then said, “So I’m the patsy.” A few days later, he was dead and despised.

Whether or not one believes Oswald shot Kennedy, what he said was true: Kennedy was dead, and Kennedy’s enemies had a patsy to take the blame.

 

Judas was also patsy. After being used by Satan and apostate Jews to effect the death of Jesus, he was then disdained by them like the dumb fool he was, and became dead and despised not long afterward.

 

The Son of Perdition, a.k.a. the King of the North, will similarly be used. He will invade the Middle East, seemingly from the north through Syria, then occupy Israel and subdue Islamic North Africa. Dan. 11:40-43

After this god-man, bringing his forces by “ships of Chittim” from Western Europe (Num. 24:23-24), has been used to inflame the rest of the world – Islamic and Jewish Middle East, plus,“from east and from north,” Iran (and/or China) and Russia (Syria’s ally), Dan. 11:44 – “he shall plant the tents of his pavilion between the seas at the glorious holy mountain [= the Abomination of Desolation], but shall come to his end, and no one shall help him.” Dan. 11:45 Like Judas, this patsy will soon end up dead and despised, because his usefulness to Satan and his cronies will be over. Their sole plan for him is to cause world-ending chaos, to be followed by the New World Order (the Beast Kingdom), in which the Son of Perdition shall have no part.

 

Jesus, in his instant of appearance in the clouds, to be “seen by every eye,” Rev. 1:17; 6:16 [6^th Seal], will gather his Elect to himself, while shepherding the earthly Remnant of Jacob into the “place prepared of [Greek apo: lit. away from] God, that they should feed her there 1260 days.” Matt. 24:31; Rev. 12:6 The Remnant will “have the testimony of Jesus.” Rev. 12:17 But not having fully prepared themselves for his coming, they won't be able to ascend to him. Among the Remnant will be the sealed and sanctified 144,000, who will shepherd them during the 1260 days.

As for the Son of Perdition, “…the Lord shall consume [him] with the spirit of his mouth, and shall bring [him] to naught with the brightness of his coming.” 2 Thes. 2:8

 

The door into the heavens will then be quickly closed, along with every Spirit-opened eye, leaving forlorn virgins pleading to be allowed in. (“I do not see/perceive [Greek: oida] you,” Jesus tells them.) Matt. 25:11-12 Sometime thereafter, “the Beast that ascends out of the Abyss” (Rev. 11:7), having been released at the 5^th angelic Trumpet (Rev. 9:1-2, 11-12), will proceed to fulfill the “strong delusion” ordained by God. 2 Thes. 2:11 The little horn/Mouth of the Beast will utter his blasphemies, and persecute the earthly saints for 1260 days. Dan. 7:8, 25; Rev. 13:5-7

 

By this time the Son of Perdition, the patsy used by Western apostate Christianity to fully betray its once great heritage; this god-man who commits the Abomination of Desolation, which brings to pass the chaos of the Great Tribulation –

he will have become no more than a hiss and a byword of history. Just like Judas, the other son of perdition, who was used by apostate Judaism to fully betray their once great heritage. John 17:12

 

Instead of being the great operator and insider he’d been duped into believing himself to be, the Son of Perdition turns out to be just another dumb-fool patsy. Like Judas. Like Oswald.

[gdemoss]

The things that are seen represent manifestations of things unseen. Son of Perdition means the sound of perdition or perdition speaking through a man. Aka the false prophet.

[Last Daze]

 

What I've found.....

... Judas was referred to as the son of perdition, the same title as the false prophet.  Notice the definite article "the".

 

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.  John 17:12

 

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thessalonians 2:3

You provide no scriptural evidence that says the Son of Perdition is the False Prophet. You just presume it from these passages. In fact, they are two different persons: the Latter-Day Son of Perdition comes and perishes well before the Beast and False Prophet appear on the scene.

 

Just because I didn't list the support doesn't mean I don't have any.  Maybe you should ask for it, instead of just presuming that I'm presuming.  Here is my scriptural evidence for the son of perdition being the false prophet.  Take it or leave it.  I'm sure you'll leave it but others might find it instructive.

 

The above verse, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, states that the son of perdition is the same as the man of sin.  He is a human.  He is the one the Lord slays at His return.

 

Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;  2 Thessalonians 2:8

 

Revelation 13 indicates that the beast from the earth is a man.

 

Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.  Revelation 13:18

 

The beast from the earth of Rev 13:11 is the same as the false prophet because:

 

And he (beast from the earth) deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast (from the sea)  Revelation 13:14

 

And the beast (from the sea) was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.  Revelation 19:20

 

There are three distinct evil entities referred to in Revelation.  They are the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet.

 

And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;  Revelation 16:13

 

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.  Revelation 20:10

 

The dragon is Satan who is a fallen angel.  The beast is likewise a fallen angel because he comes up out of the abyss per Rev 17.  The abyss is always used in the context of the supernatural.  The false prophet is the only human in the group.  He is the only one qualified to be the son of perdition, the man of sin.

 

In summary:

 

The son of perdition is a man slain by the Lord at His return.

The false prophet is the beast from the earth who is a man.

The only human in the trio of evil is the false prophet.

 

Therefore...the false prophet is the son of perdition.  That's as straightforward as I know how to say it.

[missmuffet]

I don't think so.That is a wild thought.I went to this:

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/son-of-perdition.html

[WilliamL]

The dragon is Satan who is a fallen angel.  The beast is likewise a fallen angel because he comes up out of the abyss per Rev 17.  The abyss is always used in the context of the supernatural.  The false prophet is the only human in the group.  He is the only one qualified to be the son of perdition, the man of sin.

 

In summary:

 

The son of perdition is a man slain by the Lord at His return.

The false prophet is the beast from the earth who is a man.

The only human in the trio of evil is the false prophet.

 

Therefore...the false prophet is the son of perdition.  That's as straightforward as I know how to say it.

 

Your argument breaks down when you say, "The false prophet is the only human in the group.  He is the only one qualified to be the son of perdition, the man of sin."

 

This argument is not proven, because even IF the False Prophet is a man, that does not in itself mean that he is the Son of Perdition. There remains the possibility that there is yet another man who is the Son of Perdition. For there will be other players in addition to the big three you mention: for example the Mouth of the Beast.

 

The correct understanding is directly related to our different interpretations of the sequence of End Time events. When the Son of Perdition was Judas, he was the precursor of tribulation events during Christ's First Advent, including the Crucifixion, the flight of the disciples, and the resurrections of both Jesus and the saints. Judas died early in that first tribulation. The wrath of God of that era, fulfilled in the destruction of the Temple and dis-empowerment of the Aaronic priesthood in 70 AD, came long after Judas' death.

 

As I show in my article above, scriptural evidence points to the Latter-Day Son of Perdition as likewise being the precursor of Latter-Day Great Tribulation events, and he will again die early in the latter Trib. Only afterward, during the period of God's Wrath, will the Beast and False Prophet arise, to later be judged and condemned in the fulfillment of the Latter-Day Wrath.

 

So it all goes back to our radically different understandings of End Time events. I see Jesus coming early for his Church, after the 6th Seal is opened. You see him coming much later for the Church, during the final judgment of the 7th Trumpets and Bowls.

 

We better hope that He comes early rather than late!

[Ezra]

I'm curious as to what other people think about the possibility of the false prophet being Judas raised from the dead. 

Not very likely.  None of the damned will be resurrected until the Great White Throne judgment, which is long after the reign of the Antichrist (Rev 20:13).  This would need a special resurrection, and there is absolutely no reason for the one who betrayed Christ to receive any special treatment.

[JustinM]

It's extremely difficult for us to understand the implications of what is written in Revelation, because we just don't have the benefit of hindsight to validate our theories.

 

The false prophet could be a Jew, or a Christian, or a Muslim that tries to convince the world that the Messiah has finally arrived.  This prophet will have the ability to perform miracles to validate his lies.

 

All are just as plausible as any other, because they are of the same spirit.  Whether the world is reeling from a devastating global war, or the rapture of the Christians, a false prophet will emerge and will be able to convince the world that the messiah has finally arrived.

[Last Daze]

 

I'm curious as to what other people think about the possibility of the false prophet being Judas raised from the dead. 

Not very likely.  None of the damned will be resurrected until the Great White Throne judgment, which is long after the reign of the Antichrist (Rev 20:13).  This would need a special resurrection, and there is absolutely no reason for the one who betrayed Christ to receive any special treatment.

 

 

I agree that those not in the first resurrection will be resurrected after the 1000 year reign of Christ.  Those resurrections are being raised immortal, never to die again.  I'm not suggesting an immortal resurrection, just being raised from the dead.

 

 

Also, I find this reference somewhat mysterious.

 

And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”  Acts 1:24-25

 

His own place?

 

 

Any thoughts on this?