Once Saved always Saved?

[Mark777]

kjw47: "Even though they did powerful works in his name. They did these works..."

Mark777: They only SAID they did those works. Christ said that He NEVER knew them. Does Christ lie? No! He never knew them. They never did those works by His power.

[st. Worm]

mark quote:

If you do not believe in free will how does that go with your belief that a true believer can decide to reject God and salvation? Wouldn't that be a free will choice? A believer has been given a new nature that doesn't want to sin so in order to turn away from Christ a believer would need to make a choice to do so? He is no longer a slave to sin.

SW:

Man has no ability to believe the gospel naturally prior to spiritual renewal (born again) because the will is bound by sin. Unfortunately the ability is always there to reject grace and that is why we see so many warnings to believers in the Bible about falling away.

[kjw47]

kjw47: "Even though they did powerful works in his name. They did these works..."

Mark777: They only SAID they did those works. Christ said that He NEVER knew them. Does Christ lie? No! He never knew them. They never did those works by His power.

You are right, they did not do those works by Jesus power, but they were told by their teachers they did. These teachers obviously represented Jesus in their words to these ones. and also it must have looked in their hearts they were serving Jesus also.How can this be? Because satan transforms into an angel of light. His number 1 way that he has always decieved mankind was by posing as God in false religion.Thats why i sign-- Make sure of all things.So it is obvious that there are religions on this earth that look like it is Jesus,s. There are thousands of different named religions saying one is saved by the blood of Jesus. So one might ask themselves am i in the right one? How can one really know unless he makes sure of all things by looking into those other religions that say they have the saving blood of Jesus power. Or does one have enough time in their lifetime to really make sure?

[Mark777]

sw: "Unfortunately the ability is always there to reject grace and that is why we see so many warnings to believers in the Bible about falling away."

Mark777: So how does one thwart Christ when He said He would lose nothing? Was He mistaken? Does He just not have the power to do what He said? Why Would Christ say that He would lose nothing if He knew He would lose something? Just wondering.

[Mark777]

kjw47,

I understand where you are coming from. Yes, I agree they could have been following a false Jesus/idea of Jesus = not truly saved. I agree.

Mark

[st. Worm]

mark quote:

Mark777: So how does one thwart Christ when He said He would lose nothing? Was He mistaken? Does He just not have the power to do what He said? Why Would Christ say that He would lose nothing if He knew He would lose something? Just wondering.

SW:

Wonder no more. There is no inference at all in the verse in question that we can't fall away from faith. It only says that Jesus will not lose our salvation for us.

[kjw47]

kjw47,

I understand where you are coming from. Yes, I agree they could have been following a false Jesus/idea of Jesus = not truly saved. I agree.

Mark

Thank you friend, yes and Jesus himself pointed out the problem in that passage-- He called them workers of iniquities ( lawlessness in some bibles ) And at 1 John,3:4 says-- Iniquities is sin 3: 6,9,10 says-- do not practice sin. Or you are the children of the devil. Gods word clearly says that practicers of sin are the devils children, and in those words of Jesus even though they did powerful works out of powerful love for Jesus he never knew them. There is a simple test out of Gods word to see if our religion has the blood of christ behind it.--If the teachers are telling these ones they are saved Matthew19: 24-- 1 corinthians 6: 9,10-- I promise you they do not represent Jesus. There are many other sins that one can practice also besides these mentioned here. So as i will tell all-- make sure of all things, eternal life may depend on it. If one truly loves Jesus he would listen to Jesus carefully when he stated-- Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from the mouth of God-- one simply cannot take one line from Gods word and think that they are saved, a true christian learns every utterance.

Edited June 11, 2006 by kjw47

[Mark777]

No SW it says that He will not lose one of us. That he will deliever us . You know better than that. Nice try. I know it is hard to say that you are wrong but twisting the very words of Jesus isn't the way to go.

Mark

[Mark777]

kjw47,

I understand where you are coming from. Yes, I agree they could have been following a false Jesus/idea of Jesus = not truly saved. I agree.

Mark

Thank you friend, yes and Jesus himself pointed out the problem in that passage-- He called them workers of iniquities ( lawlessness in some bibles ) And at 1 John,3:4 says-- Iniquities is sin 3: 6,9,10 says-- do not practice sin. Or you are the children of the devil. Gods word clearly says that practicers of sin are the devils children, and in those words of Jesus even though they did powerful works out of powerful love for Jesus he never knew them. There is a simple test out of Gods word to see if our religion has the blood of christ behind it.--If the teachers are telling these ones they are saved Matthew19: 24-- 1 corinthians 6: 9,10-- I promise you they do not represent Jesus. There are many other sins that one can practice also besides these mentioned here. So as i will tell all-- make sure of all things, eternal life may depend on it. If one truly loves Jesus he would listen to Jesus carefully when he stated-- Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from the mouth of God-- one simply cannot take one line from Gods word and think that they are saved, a true christian learns every utterance.

Amen brother.

[st. Worm]

quote:

No SW it says that He will not lose one of us. That he will deliever us . You know better than that. Nice try. I know it is hard to say that you are wrong but twisting the very words of Jesus isn't the way to go.

SW:

It is you who are twisting words. It says he will not lose us. That in no way contradicts the possibility of our falling away from Him. Once again you are letting your preconceived notions affect your judgment. Jesus knows his own, those who remain faithful to the end.