Guest shiloh357 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Bible2, It should be pointed out that pacifism is a secular, not a biblical concept. The Bible doesn't teach pacifism. Pacifists aren't necessarily Christians. People like you try to take an ungodly, fleshly, worldly concept like pacifism and pencil it into the Bible. You have a very sloppy handling of Scripture In WW2 it was not the case that both thought God was on their side. Hitler wasn't a Christian. Nazism wasn't a Christian movement. So you're going to make the case that even if Hitler had made it here, the right thing to do is capitulate and simply allow ourselves to be slaughtered??? You believe the best response to evil people is just let them conquer the world and slaughter everyone??? That is not Christianity. That is just cowardice. You twist and pervert the Bible to justify your cowardice. People like you only embolden evil and create more victims of evil. There is nothing biblical about that. You the kind of people ensure that evil thrives and prospers and innocent people pay the price for their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Not from scripture but wise words nevertheless: Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted May 25, 2015 shiloh357 said in post 41: Human beings are inherently evil. And even Christians can be inherently susceptible to propaganda, so that they are lulled into thinking a war is a "just war" when in fact it isn't at all. Look at the American Civil War, for example. Both sides truly believed God was on their side. Christians slaughtered Christians in the name of God, when in fact it was just for political power. Same during the wars during the Reformation and Counter-Reformation: Catholic Christians slaughtered Protestant Christians, and Protestant Christians slaughtered Catholic Christians, all in the name of Christ. Same during World War II. Both sides in Europe truly believed God was on their side. British Christians slaughtered German Christians, and German Christians slaughtered British Christians, and both sides truly believed their cause was just. And even if Hitler had managed to defeat Britain and to hold off Stalin, and to make it to American shores with an army. Should American Christians really have taken up arms against German Christians, most of whom were deceived by Hitler into thinking what they were doing was a good thing, and who would have been instantly shot by the Gestapo if they laid down their arms in the name of Christ and peace between Christians? That's another irrelevance. You're saying that because because both sides believe that God is on their side then we shouldn't fight. That's like me refusing to defend myself from somebody who is trying to kill me because he thinks that God is on his side too. As for World War 2, you have a man who 'thugs' his way into power, stomps unprovoked all over the rest of Europe and then starts throwing Jews into concentration camps - but according to you we shouldn't stop him because he might think that God is on his side as well, and we could be wrong if we think that God is on ours. If you don't know whether your own battle is justified in God's eyes or not, then you don't know God and you can't spot evil when you see it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I always find it interesting to listen to people rationalize justify and minimize. Amazing to watch character assassination because others see a flaw in your theology. Attacks and accusations flying around belittling others. I get it. When one falls short on being able to answer anothers inquiry then distractions are an easy tool to cover up ones inability to prove their case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,714 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Gdemoss I don't think anyone attacked anyone. There is a difference between saying your wrong and your an imbicile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2015 8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, c and especially for those of his household, d he has denied the faith e and is worse than an unbeliever. Matt 24:42-43 43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. NASB How can you be sure to provide and protect your family unless you are the meanest person alive, and how are you going to stop the thief if he's much larger, stronger and faster than you..... but you are expected to protect your things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 25, 2015 8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, c and especially for those of his household, d he has denied the faith e and is worse than an unbeliever. Matt 24:42-43 43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. NASB How can you be sure to provide and protect your family unless you are the meanest person alive, and how are you going to stop the thief if he's much larger, stronger and faster than you..... but you are expected to protect your things. Sam, this is an excellent example of using the NT to develop a position that defends the point of view that a man os expected to physically defend his family against intruders into the home. It could support such a position or it could not. I consider the context of what is being said as a whole and look at the illustration. I can't be certain that this is what is being said by the text. Protecting our houses when it comes to the Lord visiting has to do with instruction in righteousness and death to self rather than bearing arms. The matthew 24 passage speaks of us keeping watch over his house. When he comes we are rewarded for how well we have done. He is the one spoken of that comes as a theif. So when he comes we are to meet him with firearms? Doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2015 I give up....... and I'll hold my thoughts from here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,714 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Gdemoss, Matthew 24 speaks of Jesus second return and has absolutely no bearing on the topic at hand. It is not dealing with defending ones home from an intruder. Obviously none of us are going to shoot Jesus when He returns. That is taking scripture out of context, with no other goal then to make it say what you want it to, and in my experience if you have to do that then its time to re evaluate what you believe on said subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippie333 Posted May 26, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,236 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 673 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/24/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/18/1970 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Just a reminder....debate the subject..not call out others and make it personal. Please? I really do hate to lock or close a thread when the discussion is going well....but getting personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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