The Lord Jesus Christ

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

Whew, have a mint (that baited breath is a killer).

[enoob57]

dead minnows make a succulent yet revealing meal... especially the really aged ones

[Guest shiloh357]

See, the key word in John 1:1-5 is “en” which means “WAS.” (And this is where shiloh357 and I split.) I have absolutely no problem with the Logos being God. However, the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us! That made Him human! His “spirit” was His “breath!” His “soul” was His “breathing body!” When He “gave up the spirit” on the cross thirty-some years later, He "breathed His last” (as far as any other human being at that moment could tell).

Jesus claimed to be eternal life (John 14:6, 11:25-26)   And Jesus claimed to be the giver of eternal life (John 6: 47-58)   Only God is the source of eternal life and Jesus was able to grant eternal life while on earth. 

Any claim that Jesus was just  man and not God during his earthly ministry is heresy  and should be rejected by all true followers of Jesus.  If you deny the deity of Jesus, you are NOT Messianic.

Shalom, shiloh357.

Yeshua` also claimed to be GIVEN the right to give eternal life by His Father!

John 5:16-24

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
KJV

So, you’re right that “only God is the source of eternal life"; however, that does NOT imply that Yeshua` is God! Furthermore, this being “equal with God” is in STANDING; that is, He is to be honored as the Judge of all the earth, just as God is to be so honored, since God, Yeshua`s Father, committed all judgment to the Son! And, when Yeshua` returns to this earth, He will first establish His own Kingdom in the Land of Israel, and then He shall GROW His Kingdom until it fills the earth and He becomes the King of kings and Master of masters! For He must reign until He has put all of His enemies under His feet!

Actually v. 21 doesn't say that Jesus was given the right to give eternal life.  Verse 21 says that Jesus can give eternal life to anyone he wishes according to his will.   He doesn't ask the father for permission.  Jesus doesn't merely claim to be the source of eternal life.  Jesus claims to BE eternal life.   Eternal life isn't length of time.   Eternal life is Jesus.  (John 11:25-26, 14:6). Jesus absolved sins as God in his own authority in several places in the Gospels, as well.     If anything John 5 actually augments Jesus' claim to be God.    Jesus as judge of the whole earth is standing in a position that only God can stand in.    Jesus was and is just as much God as the Father, any other position is heretical.

[Guest shiloh357]

Mary is not the mother of God.    Mary is the mother of the humanity of Jesus in his incarnation.   As God, Jesus has no mother, as Jesus was pre-existent.   God is Mary's Creator.  God is Mary's Father, but God has no mother  

Shilo,   when Catholics and Eastern Orthodox say Mother of God, you completely misunderstand them.

I have tried to explain it to you.

Yet you continue to persist in your misunderstanding.

So let me take a different approach.

 

What "Mother of God" DOES NOT mean:

 

"Mother of God" does not mean that Mary is the source of God.

"Mother of God" does not mean God cannot exist without Mary.

"Mother of God" does not mean Mary came before God.

 

As I said above, it simply means the child she bore was truly God as well as truly man from the moment of Jesus' conception.

 

That's ALL it means.

Use of the title, Theotokos was formally sanctioned by the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus in 431. The Church declared that both Divine and human natures were united in the person of Jesus, the son of Mary. Hence, Mary may be called Theotokos, since the son she bore according to the flesh, Jesus, is truly one of the Divine persons of the Trinity. This Marian title is really a Christological statement, which affirms that the second person of the Trinity, who was born into history as fully human, is really 'God with us'.

 

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/faq/faq19.html

 

Please take time to educate yourself, so you may stop misrepresenting the words of others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really can't say it better than Matt Slick:

 

Mary is called the mother of God in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 29 times in the following paragraphs: 466, 467, 469, 493, 495, 509, 721, 963, 966, 971, 975, 1014, 1020, 1138, 1161, 1172, 1187, 1192, 1195, 2131, 2177, 2502, 2619, 2675, 2677, 2678, 2725, 2827, 2853. Within these paragraphs that call Mary the mother of God, we see some pretty bold statements about her.

1.  "the all-holy ever-virgin Mother of God, is the masterwork of the mission of the Son . . . " (CCC 721)
2.  "the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church" (CCC 975)
3.  "our inviolate Lady, the holy Mother of God . . . " (CCC 1161)
4.  "This spiritual beauty of God is reflected in the most holy Virgin Mother of God . . . " (CCC 2502)

Such exalted praises of Mary cannot be justified from Scripture. Instead, they are inventions of the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, Mary bore the Messiah who is God in flesh, but she is not the "mother of God" in the sense that she was before Him and/or superior to Him as is what motherhood implies.

The Mother of God

God Himself is a supreme being, and the emotional inference of being the "mother of" someone carries with it authority over, maturity beyond, and even superiority. This kind of attitude has led to further errors.

1. She is called the second Eve, (Mystici Corpois Christ, par. 110)
2. Expressed devotion to Mary, (CCC 971)
3. They pray to Mary, (CCC 2679)
4. "Mary sits at the right hand of Christ," (Pope Pius X, 1835-1914, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, 14)
5. Mary is second only to Jesus, (Handbook for Todays Catholic, p. 31)
6. "so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother," (Vatican Website: Encyclical of Pope Leo 13th on the Rosary, Octobri Mense, Pope Leo 13th, 1903-1914)

Problems with "Mother of God"

As you can see from the above quotes, Mary is highly exalted. Along with her exaltation is the implication that Mary has better access to Jesus because she is His mother and Jesus will listen to His mother. I've heard countless Roman Catholics tell me this. Add to this the error that no one goes to Christ but through Mary (Pope Leo 13th) and it should be clear that Mary is being idolized beyond what is appropriate. That is why Roman Catholicism advocates praying to Mary (CCC 2679). This is a problem because this leads to people putting their focus, hope, and prayers in Mary instead of Jesus. This is heresy. It is idolatry.

An additional problem is found when we compare Mary in relation to God the Trinity (the teaching that there are three persons in the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). When the Catholic Church says that Mary is the "mother of God," there is the possibility of implying that Mary is the mother of the Trinity. Since this is not logically possible, the Catholics would have to understand the term in a different sense. They would, of course, say that Mary is only the mother of the second person of the Trinity, the Word. But they don't clarify this very often. Instead, they continually use the phrase, "mother of God," and leave it open that somehow Mary has a special relationship to God Himself by being the mother of Christ. Again, this is dangerous since it encourages people to take their eyes off of Christ and putting on to the creature: Mary.

God is the preeminent one, the most important and praiseworthy being in the universe. God has no "mother." He is the creator of all things. Motherhood, on the other hand, is a biological function (as it is used in the context of Mary in Roman Catholicism), not one dealing with the nature and essence of God as it relates to a human being who is a mother. But, God has no mother. There is nothing, and there is no one before Him, equal to Him, or comparable to Him. We must guard His glory and not give it to another.

Finally, the term, "mother of God," runs the risk of suggesting that Mary is somehow divine and part of the Godhead. So far, the Roman Catholic Church does not teach this, but there is a movement within Catholic adherents to exalt Mary to the level of divinity. The Roman Catholic Church, so far, has rightly denounced this proposal, but it does not mean that later on there might be a movement that succeeds in elevating her to divinity or semi-divinity. After all, consider the above references that exalt her far beyond what the Scriptures teach. If the Roman Catholic Church can go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6) in disregard to it, who is to say that it won't eventually elevate her to the status equal to a goddess?  (Retrieved from>>>  https://carm.org/is-mary-the-mother-of-god )

[Retrobyter]

Not that I have any interest in arguing ( as I do not ), but I do have a question.

Should some folks be revered above others, or should we simply revere God's purpose in them?

Shalom, AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken.

I believe that one should only revere God; however, one can be impressed by a person who allows God to work in his or her life, although one should certainly NOT idolize that person. This is the case with Miryam (Mary). By her own admission, she was God’s vessel to do with as He would:

Luke 1:26-38

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. (You’re the “luckiest" woman ever!)

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
KJV

Luke 1:46-55

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed (we’d say “lucky”).

49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
KJV

 

[Retrobyter]

Mary is not the mother of God.    Mary is the mother of the humanity of Jesus in his incarnation.   As God, Jesus has no mother, as Jesus was pre-existent.   God is Mary's Creator.  God is Mary's Father, but God has no mother  

Shilo,   when Catholics and Eastern Orthodox say Mother of God, you completely misunderstand them.

I have tried to explain it to you.

Yet you continue to persist in your misunderstanding.

So let me take a different approach.

 

What "Mother of God" DOES NOT mean:

 

"Mother of God" does not mean that Mary is the source of God.

"Mother of God" does not mean God cannot exist without Mary.

"Mother of God" does not mean Mary came before God.

 

As I said above, it simply means the child she bore was truly God as well as truly man from the moment of Jesus' conception.

 

That's ALL it means.

Use of the title, Theotokos was formally sanctioned by the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus in 431. The Church declared that both Divine and human natures were united in the person of Jesus, the son of Mary. Hence, Mary may be called Theotokos, since the son she bore according to the flesh, Jesus, is truly one of the Divine persons of the Trinity. This Marian title is really a Christological statement, which affirms that the second person of the Trinity, who was born into history as fully human, is really 'God with us'.

 

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/faq/faq19.html

 

Please take time to educate yourself, so you may stop misrepresenting the words of others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really can't say it better than Matt Slick:

 

Mary is called the mother of God in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 29 times in the following paragraphs: 466, 467, 469, 493, 495, 509, 721, 963, 966, 971, 975, 1014, 1020, 1138, 1161, 1172, 1187, 1192, 1195, 2131, 2177, 2502, 2619, 2675, 2677, 2678, 2725, 2827, 2853. Within these paragraphs that call Mary the mother of God, we see some pretty bold statements about her.

1.  "the all-holy ever-virgin Mother of God, is the masterwork of the mission of the Son . . . " (CCC 721)
2.  "the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church" (CCC 975)
3.  "our inviolate Lady, the holy Mother of God . . . " (CCC 1161)
4.  "This spiritual beauty of God is reflected in the most holy Virgin Mother of God . . . " (CCC 2502)

Such exalted praises of Mary cannot be justified from Scripture. Instead, they are inventions of the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, Mary bore the Messiah who is God in flesh, but she is not the "mother of God" in the sense that she was before Him and/or superior to Him as is what motherhood implies.

The Mother of God

God Himself is a supreme being, and the emotional inference of being the "mother of" someone carries with it authority over, maturity beyond, and even superiority. This kind of attitude has led to further errors.

1. She is called the second Eve, (Mystici Corpois Christ, par. 110)
2. Expressed devotion to Mary, (CCC 971)
3. They pray to Mary, (CCC 2679)
4. "Mary sits at the right hand of Christ," (Pope Pius X, 1835-1914, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, 14)
5. Mary is second only to Jesus, (Handbook for Todays Catholic, p. 31)
6. "so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother," (Vatican Website: Encyclical of Pope Leo 13th on the Rosary, Octobri Mense, Pope Leo 13th, 1903-1914)

Problems with "Mother of God"

As you can see from the above quotes, Mary is highly exalted. Along with her exaltation is the implication that Mary has better access to Jesus because she is His mother and Jesus will listen to His mother. I've heard countless Roman Catholics tell me this. Add to this the error that no one goes to Christ but through Mary (Pope Leo 13th) and it should be clear that Mary is being idolized beyond what is appropriate. That is why Roman Catholicism advocates praying to Mary (CCC 2679). This is a problem because this leads to people putting their focus, hope, and prayers in Mary instead of Jesus. This is heresy. It is idolatry.

An additional problem is found when we compare Mary in relation to God the Trinity (the teaching that there are three persons in the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). When the Catholic Church says that Mary is the "mother of God," there is the possibility of implying that Mary is the mother of the Trinity. Since this is not logically possible, the Catholics would have to understand the term in a different sense. They would, of course, say that Mary is only the mother of the second person of the Trinity, the Word. But they don't clarify this very often. Instead, they continually use the phrase, "mother of God," and leave it open that somehow Mary has a special relationship to God Himself by being the mother of Christ. Again, this is dangerous since it encourages people to take their eyes off of Christ and putting on to the creature: Mary.

God is the preeminent one, the most important and praiseworthy being in the universe. God has no "mother." He is the creator of all things. Motherhood, on the other hand, is a biological function (as it is used in the context of Mary in Roman Catholicism), not one dealing with the nature and essence of God as it relates to a human being who is a mother. But, God has no mother. There is nothing, and there is no one before Him, equal to Him, or comparable to Him. We must guard His glory and not give it to another.

Finally, the term, "mother of God," runs the risk of suggesting that Mary is somehow divine and part of the Godhead. So far, the Roman Catholic Church does not teach this, but there is a movement within Catholic adherents to exalt Mary to the level of divinity. The Roman Catholic Church, so far, has rightly denounced this proposal, but it does not mean that later on there might be a movement that succeeds in elevating her to divinity or semi-divinity. After all, consider the above references that exalt her far beyond what the Scriptures teach. If the Roman Catholic Church can go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6) in disregard to it, who is to say that it won't eventually elevate her to the status equal to a goddess?  (Retrieved from>>>  https://carm.org/is-mary-the-mother-of-god )

Shalom, shiloh357.

You probably can’t appreciate this, but I find it oddly ironic that you will vehemently stand against the worship of Miryam, but strongly advocate the worship of Yeshua`, Miryam’s son. Miryam can’t be the “Mother of God,” but Yeshua` can be "God the Son.” There’s just some interesting parallels; that’s all.

I, too, stand against the RCC in their opinion on the “Mother of God,” which is a RCC invention, but I also stand against the RCC in their doctrine of the “Trinity” and the concept of “God the Son,” which is ALSO a RCC invention!

Just something to think about....

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

Basically, Mary did as she was told, as have many others. I respect that, as do I God's "choice" in those chosen to fulfill His purpose.

I cannot not however, agree that God's blessings are pure "luck". 

I agree that Mary was blessed. "I believe" we ALL are but not as a matter of chance.

Probably just a matter of wording here, but I did want to clarify my personal thoughts.

I see no harm in respecting Mary for being a servant of God. I just don't believe her obedience ( or anyone else's ) deserves "special" praise above another's. Unless God has told me to hold her in higher regard than others, that is. 

[Guest shiloh357]

Mary is not the mother of God.    Mary is the mother of the humanity of Jesus in his incarnation.   As God, Jesus has no mother, as Jesus was pre-existent.   God is Mary's Creator.  God is Mary's Father, but God has no mother  

Shilo,   when Catholics and Eastern Orthodox say Mother of God, you completely misunderstand them.

I have tried to explain it to you.

Yet you continue to persist in your misunderstanding.

So let me take a different approach.

 

What "Mother of God" DOES NOT mean:

 

"Mother of God" does not mean that Mary is the source of God.

"Mother of God" does not mean God cannot exist without Mary.

"Mother of God" does not mean Mary came before God.

 

As I said above, it simply means the child she bore was truly God as well as truly man from the moment of Jesus' conception.

 

That's ALL it means.

Use of the title, Theotokos was formally sanctioned by the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus in 431. The Church declared that both Divine and human natures were united in the person of Jesus, the son of Mary. Hence, Mary may be called Theotokos, since the son she bore according to the flesh, Jesus, is truly one of the Divine persons of the Trinity. This Marian title is really a Christological statement, which affirms that the second person of the Trinity, who was born into history as fully human, is really 'God with us'.

 

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/faq/faq19.html

 

Please take time to educate yourself, so you may stop misrepresenting the words of others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really can't say it better than Matt Slick:

 

Mary is called the mother of God in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 29 times in the following paragraphs: 466, 467, 469, 493, 495, 509, 721, 963, 966, 971, 975, 1014, 1020, 1138, 1161, 1172, 1187, 1192, 1195, 2131, 2177, 2502, 2619, 2675, 2677, 2678, 2725, 2827, 2853. Within these paragraphs that call Mary the mother of God, we see some pretty bold statements about her.

1.  "the all-holy ever-virgin Mother of God, is the masterwork of the mission of the Son . . . " (CCC 721)
2.  "the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church" (CCC 975)
3.  "our inviolate Lady, the holy Mother of God . . . " (CCC 1161)
4.  "This spiritual beauty of God is reflected in the most holy Virgin Mother of God . . . " (CCC 2502)

Such exalted praises of Mary cannot be justified from Scripture. Instead, they are inventions of the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, Mary bore the Messiah who is God in flesh, but she is not the "mother of God" in the sense that she was before Him and/or superior to Him as is what motherhood implies.

The Mother of God

God Himself is a supreme being, and the emotional inference of being the "mother of" someone carries with it authority over, maturity beyond, and even superiority. This kind of attitude has led to further errors.

1. She is called the second Eve, (Mystici Corpois Christ, par. 110)
2. Expressed devotion to Mary, (CCC 971)
3. They pray to Mary, (CCC 2679)
4. "Mary sits at the right hand of Christ," (Pope Pius X, 1835-1914, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, 14)
5. Mary is second only to Jesus, (Handbook for Todays Catholic, p. 31)
6. "so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother," (Vatican Website: Encyclical of Pope Leo 13th on the Rosary, Octobri Mense, Pope Leo 13th, 1903-1914)

Problems with "Mother of God"

As you can see from the above quotes, Mary is highly exalted. Along with her exaltation is the implication that Mary has better access to Jesus because she is His mother and Jesus will listen to His mother. I've heard countless Roman Catholics tell me this. Add to this the error that no one goes to Christ but through Mary (Pope Leo 13th) and it should be clear that Mary is being idolized beyond what is appropriate. That is why Roman Catholicism advocates praying to Mary (CCC 2679). This is a problem because this leads to people putting their focus, hope, and prayers in Mary instead of Jesus. This is heresy. It is idolatry.

An additional problem is found when we compare Mary in relation to God the Trinity (the teaching that there are three persons in the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). When the Catholic Church says that Mary is the "mother of God," there is the possibility of implying that Mary is the mother of the Trinity. Since this is not logically possible, the Catholics would have to understand the term in a different sense. They would, of course, say that Mary is only the mother of the second person of the Trinity, the Word. But they don't clarify this very often. Instead, they continually use the phrase, "mother of God," and leave it open that somehow Mary has a special relationship to God Himself by being the mother of Christ. Again, this is dangerous since it encourages people to take their eyes off of Christ and putting on to the creature: Mary.

God is the preeminent one, the most important and praiseworthy being in the universe. God has no "mother." He is the creator of all things. Motherhood, on the other hand, is a biological function (as it is used in the context of Mary in Roman Catholicism), not one dealing with the nature and essence of God as it relates to a human being who is a mother. But, God has no mother. There is nothing, and there is no one before Him, equal to Him, or comparable to Him. We must guard His glory and not give it to another.

Finally, the term, "mother of God," runs the risk of suggesting that Mary is somehow divine and part of the Godhead. So far, the Roman Catholic Church does not teach this, but there is a movement within Catholic adherents to exalt Mary to the level of divinity. The Roman Catholic Church, so far, has rightly denounced this proposal, but it does not mean that later on there might be a movement that succeeds in elevating her to divinity or semi-divinity. After all, consider the above references that exalt her far beyond what the Scriptures teach. If the Roman Catholic Church can go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6) in disregard to it, who is to say that it won't eventually elevate her to the status equal to a goddess?  (Retrieved from>>>  https://carm.org/is-mary-the-mother-of-god )

Shalom, shiloh357.

You probably can’t appreciate this, but I find it oddly ironic that you will vehemently stand against the worship of Miryam, but strongly advocate the worship of Yeshua`, Miryam’s son. Miryam can’t be the “Mother of God,” but Yeshua` can be "God the Son.” There’s just some interesting parallels; that’s all.

I, too, stand against the RCC in their opinion on the “Mother of God,” which is a RCC invention, but I also stand against the RCC in their doctrine of the “Trinity” and the concept of “God the Son,” which is ALSO a RCC invention!

Just something to think about....

Jesus supposed to be our object of worship.  Jesus is God according to Isa.9: 6-7.    Jesus is our Great God and Savior (Titus 2: 13).   Jesus is called God in Heb. 1:8.   God the Son and Son of God both mean the same thing and neither are Catholic inventions.   

The phrase, "Son of"  in Hebrew thought is a phrase that equates two objects.   Jesus referred to James and John as "sons of thunder."  He equated their violent tempers to thunder.   Simon bar Kokhba was "Simon son of a star."   It was used to proclaim him to a messiah.    When Jesus was called the, Son of God, it was equating Jesus with the Father and Jesus' enemies correctly understood it be a reference to deity.   Jesus referring to God as His Father, was blasphemous because Jesus was proclaiming His Godhood.  By calling Himself, the Son of God, Jesus was declaring his deity.    That's why they wanted to stone him for blasphemy.

God created the universe, but Jesus is called the Creator of the universe in John 1:1-3, Col.1:15-18 and Hebrews 1:1-2.    So, your denial of Jesus deity really has no foundation in biblical truth.

I know lots of Messianic Jews and they would reject your views as heretical.  And they all worship Jesus.

[Retrobyter]

Basically, Mary did as she was told, as have many others. I respect that, as do I God's "choice" in those chosen to fulfill His purpose.

I cannot not however, agree that God's blessings are pure "luck". 

I agree that Mary was blessed. "I believe" we ALL are but not as a matter of chance.

Probably just a matter of wording here, but I did want to clarify my personal thoughts.

I see no harm in respecting Mary for being a servant of God. I just don't believe her obedience ( or anyone else's ) deserves "special" praise above another's. Unless God has told me to hold her in higher regard than others, that is. 

Shalom, AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken.

Yes, I agree with you. All I was saying is that we use the words “luck” and “lucky” like they used to use the words “bless” and “blessed,” and the words “bless” and “blessed” are much closer to the truth because there is no happenstance with the God who declares the end from the beginning. And, you are absolutely right that Miryam’s obedience doesn’t deserve any “special” praise above another’s obedience. God has NOT instructed us to hold her in higher regard than others. Often in prophecies, like that which Gavri’el (Gabriel) stated, are mere statements of fact without a positive or negative slant to those prophecies. Gavri’el merely stated the fact that “all women would call her blessed” (like we use the word “lucky”) because she was chosen by God to give birth to God's Messiah, hold Him as an infant, play with Him as a child, and raise Him to adulthood!

[Retrobyter]

Mary is not the mother of God.    Mary is the mother of the humanity of Jesus in his incarnation.   As God, Jesus has no mother, as Jesus was pre-existent.   God is Mary's Creator.  God is Mary's Father, but God has no mother  

Shilo,   when Catholics and Eastern Orthodox say Mother of God, you completely misunderstand them.

I have tried to explain it to you.

Yet you continue to persist in your misunderstanding.

So let me take a different approach.

 

What "Mother of God" DOES NOT mean:

 

"Mother of God" does not mean that Mary is the source of God.

"Mother of God" does not mean God cannot exist without Mary.

"Mother of God" does not mean Mary came before God.

 

As I said above, it simply means the child she bore was truly God as well as truly man from the moment of Jesus' conception.

 

That's ALL it means.

Use of the title, Theotokos was formally sanctioned by the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus in 431. The Church declared that both Divine and human natures were united in the person of Jesus, the son of Mary. Hence, Mary may be called Theotokos, since the son she bore according to the flesh, Jesus, is truly one of the Divine persons of the Trinity. This Marian title is really a Christological statement, which affirms that the second person of the Trinity, who was born into history as fully human, is really 'God with us'.

 

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/faq/faq19.html

 

Please take time to educate yourself, so you may stop misrepresenting the words of others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really can't say it better than Matt Slick:

 

Mary is called the mother of God in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 29 times in the following paragraphs: 466, 467, 469, 493, 495, 509, 721, 963, 966, 971, 975, 1014, 1020, 1138, 1161, 1172, 1187, 1192, 1195, 2131, 2177, 2502, 2619, 2675, 2677, 2678, 2725, 2827, 2853. Within these paragraphs that call Mary the mother of God, we see some pretty bold statements about her.

1.  "the all-holy ever-virgin Mother of God, is the masterwork of the mission of the Son . . . " (CCC 721)
2.  "the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church" (CCC 975)
3.  "our inviolate Lady, the holy Mother of God . . . " (CCC 1161)
4.  "This spiritual beauty of God is reflected in the most holy Virgin Mother of God . . . " (CCC 2502)

Such exalted praises of Mary cannot be justified from Scripture. Instead, they are inventions of the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, Mary bore the Messiah who is God in flesh, but she is not the "mother of God" in the sense that she was before Him and/or superior to Him as is what motherhood implies.

The Mother of God

God Himself is a supreme being, and the emotional inference of being the "mother of" someone carries with it authority over, maturity beyond, and even superiority. This kind of attitude has led to further errors.

1. She is called the second Eve, (Mystici Corpois Christ, par. 110)
2. Expressed devotion to Mary, (CCC 971)
3. They pray to Mary, (CCC 2679)
4. "Mary sits at the right hand of Christ," (Pope Pius X, 1835-1914, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, 14)
5. Mary is second only to Jesus, (Handbook for Todays Catholic, p. 31)
6. "so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother," (Vatican Website: Encyclical of Pope Leo 13th on the Rosary, Octobri Mense, Pope Leo 13th, 1903-1914)

Problems with "Mother of God"

As you can see from the above quotes, Mary is highly exalted. Along with her exaltation is the implication that Mary has better access to Jesus because she is His mother and Jesus will listen to His mother. I've heard countless Roman Catholics tell me this. Add to this the error that no one goes to Christ but through Mary (Pope Leo 13th) and it should be clear that Mary is being idolized beyond what is appropriate. That is why Roman Catholicism advocates praying to Mary (CCC 2679). This is a problem because this leads to people putting their focus, hope, and prayers in Mary instead of Jesus. This is heresy. It is idolatry.

An additional problem is found when we compare Mary in relation to God the Trinity (the teaching that there are three persons in the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). When the Catholic Church says that Mary is the "mother of God," there is the possibility of implying that Mary is the mother of the Trinity. Since this is not logically possible, the Catholics would have to understand the term in a different sense. They would, of course, say that Mary is only the mother of the second person of the Trinity, the Word. But they don't clarify this very often. Instead, they continually use the phrase, "mother of God," and leave it open that somehow Mary has a special relationship to God Himself by being the mother of Christ. Again, this is dangerous since it encourages people to take their eyes off of Christ and putting on to the creature: Mary.

God is the preeminent one, the most important and praiseworthy being in the universe. God has no "mother." He is the creator of all things. Motherhood, on the other hand, is a biological function (as it is used in the context of Mary in Roman Catholicism), not one dealing with the nature and essence of God as it relates to a human being who is a mother. But, God has no mother. There is nothing, and there is no one before Him, equal to Him, or comparable to Him. We must guard His glory and not give it to another.

Finally, the term, "mother of God," runs the risk of suggesting that Mary is somehow divine and part of the Godhead. So far, the Roman Catholic Church does not teach this, but there is a movement within Catholic adherents to exalt Mary to the level of divinity. The Roman Catholic Church, so far, has rightly denounced this proposal, but it does not mean that later on there might be a movement that succeeds in elevating her to divinity or semi-divinity. After all, consider the above references that exalt her far beyond what the Scriptures teach. If the Roman Catholic Church can go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6) in disregard to it, who is to say that it won't eventually elevate her to the status equal to a goddess?  (Retrieved from>>>  https://carm.org/is-mary-the-mother-of-god )

Shalom, shiloh357.

You probably can’t appreciate this, but I find it oddly ironic that you will vehemently stand against the worship of Miryam, but strongly advocate the worship of Yeshua`, Miryam’s son. Miryam can’t be the “Mother of God,” but Yeshua` can be "God the Son.” There’s just some interesting parallels; that’s all.

I, too, stand against the RCC in their opinion on the “Mother of God,” which is a RCC invention, but I also stand against the RCC in their doctrine of the “Trinity” and the concept of “God the Son,” which is ALSO a RCC invention!

Just something to think about....

Jesus supposed to be our object of worship.  Jesus is God according to Isa.9: 6-7.    Jesus is our Great God and Savior (Titus 2: 13).   Jesus is called God in Heb. 1:8.   God the Son and Son of God both mean the same thing and neither are Catholic inventions.   

The phrase, "Son of"  in Hebrew thought is a phrase that equates two objects.   Jesus referred to James and John as "sons of thunder."  He equated their violent tempers to thunder.   Simon bar Kokhba was "Simon son of a star."   It was used to proclaim him to a messiah.    When Jesus was called the, Son of God, it was equating Jesus with the Father and Jesus' enemies correctly understood it be a reference to deity.   Jesus referring to God as His Father, was blasphemous because Jesus was proclaiming His Godhood.  By calling Himself, the Son of God, Jesus was declaring his deity.    That's why they wanted to stone him for blasphemy.

God created the universe, but Jesus is called the Creator of the universe in John 1:1-3, Col.1:15-18 and Hebrews 1:1-2.    So, your denial of Jesus deity really has no foundation in biblical truth.

I know lots of Messianic Jews and they would reject your views as heretical.  And they all worship Jesus.

Shabbat shalom, shiloh357.

There is a lot of truth in your first sentence; probably more than you intended. You said, “Jesus [is] supposed to be our object of worship.” You obviously meant that it is the right thing to do. I, however, understand “supposed” as the verb form of a “supposition.” As such, the sentence could also mean “Jesus is ASSUMED to be our object of worship."

I also understand the meaning of the word “worship” and therefore have no problem worshipping Him.

NT:4352 proskuneoo (pros-koo-neh'-o); from NT:4314 and a probable derivative of NT:2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):

KJV - worship.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

This is the correct meaning of the word “worship,” and it is precisely what a person does before a King. It’s what anyone who wishes an audience with a king must do; he must first show respect to that king! This will be done to the King of Kings or World Emperor when He is reigning over many nations during the Millennium. He SHALL be respected when “every knee shall bow to the King."