The Lord Jesus Christ

[thereselittleflower]

 

It's more than simply giving her titles.   The RCC honors Mary on par with God.   John Paul II,  after recovering from being shot, gave all the credit for his healing to Mary.   Throngs of people were on St. Peter's square every day praying to Mary, and surrounding an image of Mary while he was recovering.   That is more than simply giving her titles.   The Pope was assigning redemptive attributes like healing to Mary and it is pure idolatry.   Instead of Jesus being object of his worship, he made Mary the object of worship.

by Thereselittleflower

And how does giving Mary titles that theologically point to her Son, and who her Son is, take anything away from Jesus being the object of our worship?

Catholics and Orthodox only worship the Triune God.

by Shiloh

It's more than simply giving her titles.   The RCC honors Mary on par with God.   John Paul II,  after recovering from being shot, gave all the credit for his healing to Mary.   Throngs of people were on St. Peter's square every day praying to Mary, and surrounding an image of Mary while he was recovering.   That is more than simply giving her titles.   The Pope was assigning redemptive attributes like healing to Mary and it is pure idolatry.   Instead of Jesus being object of his worship, he made Mary the object of worship.

Mary would be embarrassed if she were alive to see all this Catholic nonsense attributed to her.

Mary would be embarrassed if she were alive to see all this Catholic nonsense attributed to her. 

This:

"The RCC honors Mary on par with God."

is simply a blatant lie.

 

You understand nothing of what you attack Shiloh.  You misunderstand the faith and words and intent of others who are unlike you in their faith in God.  You refuse to be corrected.  You refuse the truth.  There is nothing anyone can do for you beyond pray. 

Edited August 15, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[thereselittleflower]

The Holy Spirit is not in Roman Catholicism.    It's the Holy Spirit that keeps me from being led into the kind of errors that Roman Catholicism espouses.  

May God give you a Damascus Road experience my dear Shiloh.

Peace.

[missmuffet]

The Holy Spirit is not in Roman Catholicism.    It's the Holy Spirit that keeps me from being led into the kind of errors that Roman Catholicism espouses.  

May God give you a Damascus Road experience my dear Shiloh.

Peace.

I was just going to say the same for you littleflower.

[thereselittleflower]

The Holy Spirit is not in Roman Catholicism.    It's the Holy Spirit that keeps me from being led into the kind of errors that Roman Catholicism espouses.  

May God give you a Damascus Road experience my dear Shiloh.

Peace.

I was just going to say the same for you littleflower.

He already has. 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

It's more than simply giving her titles.   The RCC honors Mary on par with God.   John Paul II,  after recovering from being shot, gave all the credit for his healing to Mary.   Throngs of people were on St. Peter's square every day praying to Mary, and surrounding an image of Mary while he was recovering.   That is more than simply giving her titles.   The Pope was assigning redemptive attributes like healing to Mary and it is pure idolatry.   Instead of Jesus being object of his worship, he made Mary the object of worship.

by Thereselittleflower

And how does giving Mary titles that theologically point to her Son, and who her Son is, take anything away from Jesus being the object of our worship?

Catholics and Orthodox only worship the Triune God.

by Shiloh

It's more than simply giving her titles.   The RCC honors Mary on par with God.   John Paul II,  after recovering from being shot, gave all the credit for his healing to Mary.   Throngs of people were on St. Peter's square every day praying to Mary, and surrounding an image of Mary while he was recovering.   That is more than simply giving her titles.   The Pope was assigning redemptive attributes like healing to Mary and it is pure idolatry.   Instead of Jesus being object of his worship, he made Mary the object of worship.

Mary would be embarrassed if she were alive to see all this Catholic nonsense attributed to her.

Mary would be embarrassed if she were alive to see all this Catholic nonsense attributed to her. 

This:

"The RCC honors Mary on par with God."

is simply a blatant lie.

 

You understand nothing of what you attack Shiloh.  You misunderstand the faith and words and intent of others who are unlike you in their faith in God.  You refuse to be corrected.  You refuse the truth.  There is nothing anyone can do for you beyond pray. 

No, it is not a lie.   The RCC puts a huge emphasis Marydolatry.  I hear them talk about Mary far more than Jesus.  Mary is the Queen of Heaven (a pagan Babylonian title given to Seramis).   She is considered as sinless having the same kind of sinless conception as Jesus.  She is practically deified in function if not in form.

[Retrobyter]

See, the key word in John 1:1-5 is “en” which means “WAS.” (And this is where shiloh357 and I split.) I have absolutely no problem with the Logos being God. However, the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us! That made Him human! His “spirit” was His “breath!” His “soul” was His “breathing body!” When He “gave up the spirit” on the cross thirty-some years later, He "breathed His last” (as far as any other human being at that moment could tell).

Jesus claimed to be eternal life (John 14:6, 11:25-26)   And Jesus claimed to be the giver of eternal life (John 6: 47-58)   Only God is the source of eternal life and Jesus was able to grant eternal life while on earth. 

Any claim that Jesus was just  man and not God during his earthly ministry is heresy  and should be rejected by all true followers of Jesus.  If you deny the deity of Jesus, you are NOT Messianic.

Shalom, shiloh357.

Yeshua` also claimed to be GIVEN the right to give eternal life by His Father!

John 5:16-24

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
KJV

So, you’re right that “only God is the source of eternal life"; however, that does NOT imply that Yeshua` is God! Furthermore, this being “equal with God” is in STANDING; that is, He is to be honored as the Judge of all the earth, just as God is to be so honored, since God, Yeshua`s Father, committed all judgment to the Son! And, when Yeshua` returns to this earth, He will first establish His own Kingdom in the Land of Israel, and then He shall GROW His Kingdom until it fills the earth and He becomes the King of kings and Master of masters! For He must reign until He has put all of His enemies under His feet!

Actually v. 21 doesn't say that Jesus was given the right to give eternal life.  Verse 21 says that Jesus can give eternal life to anyone he wishes according to his will.   He doesn't ask the father for permission.  Jesus doesn't merely claim to be the source of eternal life.  Jesus claims to BE eternal life.   Eternal life isn't length of time.   Eternal life is Jesus.  (John 11:25-26, 14:6). Jesus absolved sins as God in his own authority in several places in the Gospels, as well.     If anything John 5 actually augments Jesus' claim to be God.    Jesus as judge of the whole earth is standing in a position that only God can stand in.    Jesus was and is just as much God as the Father, any other position is heretical.

Shabbat shalom, shiloh357

You’re partly right, verse 21 by itself does not say "that Yeshua` was given the right to give eternal life.” HOWEVER, in conjunction with verses 19 and 20, it DOES say that Yeshua` did NOTHING but what He saw His Father do, INCLUDING giving eternal life!

Kata Iooanneen 5:19-24

19 Apekrinato un ho Ieesous kai elegen autois, “Ameen ameen legoo humin, ou dunatai ho Huios poiein af’ heautou ouden ean mee ti blepee ton Patera poiounta; ha gar an ekeinos poiee, tauta kai ho Huios homoioos poiei.

20 Ho gar Pateer filei ton Huion kai panta deiknusin autoo ha autos poiei kai meizona toutoon deixei autoo erga, hina humeis thaumazeete.

21 Hoosier gar ho Pateer egeirei tous nekrous kai zoo-opoiei, houtoos kai ho Huios hous thelei zoo-opoiei.

22 Oude gar ho Pateer krinei oudena, alla teen krisin pasan dedooken too Huioo,

23 hina pantes timoosi ton Huion kathoos timoosi ton Patera. Ho mee timoon ton Huion ou tima ton Patera ton pempsanta auton.

24 Ameen meen legoo humin, hoti ho ton logon mou akouoon kai pisteuoon too Pempsanti me echei zooeen aioonion kai eis krisin ouk erchetai alla metabebeeken ek out thanatou eis teen zooeen.

The UBS Greek New Testament

 

19 Apekrinato = 19 Answered

oun = then

ho = the

Ieesous = Yeshua` (Jesus)

kai = and

elegen = said

autois, = to-them,

“Ameen = “Truth

ameen = truth

legoo = I-say

humin, = to-you-(plural),

ou = not

dunatai = can/is-able-to

ho = the

Huios = Son

poiein = do

af’ (app) = off/away-from

heautou = Himself

ouden = nothing

ean = if

mee = not

ti = what

blepee = He-sees

ton = the

Patera = Father

poiounta; = do;

ha = what-(things)

gar = for

an = soever

ekeinos = that-One

poiee, = does,

tauta = these-(things)

kai = and/also

ho = the

Huios = Son

homoioos = likewise

poiei. = does.

20 Ho = 20 The

gar = for

Pateer = Father

filei = loves

ton = the

Huion = Son

kai = and

panta = all-(things)

deiknusin = shows

autoo = Him

ha = that-(thing)

autos = He-Himself

poiei, = does,

kai = and/also

meizona = greater-than

toutoon = these

deixei = He-shall-show

autoo = to-Him

erga, = works/deeds,

hina = so-that

humeis = you-(plural)

thaumazeete. = may-admire.

21 Hoosper = 21 Like/As

gar = for

ho = the

Pateer = Father

egeirei = raises-up

tous = the

nekrous = dead-(ones)

kai = and/also

zoo-opoiei, = gives-them-life,

houtoos = so/in-the-same-way

kai = and/also

ho = the

Huios = Son

hous = whom

thelei = He-wills/chooses

zoo-opoiei. gives-them-life.

22 Oude = 22 But-not/not-however

gar = for

ho = the

Pateer = Father

krinei = judges

oudena, = not-even-one/nobody,

alla = but

teen = the

krisin = judgment

pasan = of-all

dedooken = he-has-given

too = to-the

Huioo, = Son,

23 hina = 23 so-that

pantes = all/everyone

timoosi = should-honor

ton = the

Huion = Son

kathoos = just-as

timoosi = they-should-honor

ton = the

Patera. = Father.

Ho = He-that

mee = not

timoon = does-honor

ton = the

Huion = Son

ou = not

tima = does-honor

ton = the

Patera = Father

ton = who

pempsanta = has-sent

auton. = Him.

24 Ameen = 24 Truth

ameen = truth

legoo = I-say

humin, = to-you-(plural),

hoti = that/because

ho = the-(one)

ton = the

logon = word

mou = of-me/my

akouoon = hears

kai = and/also

pisteuoon = believes

too = the-(One-who)

Pempsanti = Sent/Sender

me = me

echei = has/holds

zooeen = life

aioonion = eternal

kai = and/also

eis = into

krisin = judgment

ouk = not

erchetai = shall-come

alla = but

metabebeeken = has-walked-by/has-passed

ek = out-of/from

tou = the

thanatou = death

eis = into

teen = the

zooeen. = life.

[enoob57]

whoa I am not reading that

[missmuffet]

whoa I am not reading that

Me neither  

The Holy Spirit is not in Roman Catholicism.    It's the Holy Spirit that keeps me from being led into the kind of errors that Roman Catholicism espouses.  

May God give you a Damascus Road experience my dear Shiloh.

Peace.

I was just going to say the same for you littleflower.

[Guest shiloh357]

See, the key word in John 1:1-5 is “en” which means “WAS.” (And this is where shiloh357 and I split.) I have absolutely no problem with the Logos being God. However, the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us! That made Him human! His “spirit” was His “breath!” His “soul” was His “breathing body!” When He “gave up the spirit” on the cross thirty-some years later, He "breathed His last” (as far as any other human being at that moment could tell).

Jesus claimed to be eternal life (John 14:6, 11:25-26)   And Jesus claimed to be the giver of eternal life (John 6: 47-58)   Only God is the source of eternal life and Jesus was able to grant eternal life while on earth. 

Any claim that Jesus was just  man and not God during his earthly ministry is heresy  and should be rejected by all true followers of Jesus.  If you deny the deity of Jesus, you are NOT Messianic.

Shalom, shiloh357.

Yeshua` also claimed to be GIVEN the right to give eternal life by His Father!

John 5:16-24

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
KJV

So, you’re right that “only God is the source of eternal life"; however, that does NOT imply that Yeshua` is God! Furthermore, this being “equal with God” is in STANDING; that is, He is to be honored as the Judge of all the earth, just as God is to be so honored, since God, Yeshua`s Father, committed all judgment to the Son! And, when Yeshua` returns to this earth, He will first establish His own Kingdom in the Land of Israel, and then He shall GROW His Kingdom until it fills the earth and He becomes the King of kings and Master of masters! For He must reign until He has put all of His enemies under His feet!

Actually v. 21 doesn't say that Jesus was given the right to give eternal life.  Verse 21 says that Jesus can give eternal life to anyone he wishes according to his will.   He doesn't ask the father for permission.  Jesus doesn't merely claim to be the source of eternal life.  Jesus claims to BE eternal life.   Eternal life isn't length of time.   Eternal life is Jesus.  (John 11:25-26, 14:6). Jesus absolved sins as God in his own authority in several places in the Gospels, as well.     If anything John 5 actually augments Jesus' claim to be God.    Jesus as judge of the whole earth is standing in a position that only God can stand in.    Jesus was and is just as much God as the Father, any other position is heretical.

Shabbat shalom, shiloh357

You’re partly right, verse 21 by itself does not say "that Yeshua` was given the right to give eternal life.” HOWEVER, in conjunction with verses 19 and 20, it DOES say that Yeshua` did NOTHING but what He saw His Father do, INCLUDING giving eternal life!

 

  Yes, but it doesn't mean what you take it to mean.   Simply peppering me with your incompetent handling of the original languages isn't going to help you.   Jesus isn't saying that He was powerless to do anything on his own authority as God.   When Jesus said that He can do nothing but what he saw the Father doing, He is pointing to the complete unity of interest.   Jesus has no separate agenda than the Father.  Jesus was not a slave to the Father. Rather, he was unified with the Father in a single purpose. What Jesus said to his enemies who accused him of violating the Sabbath was that he was only doing what the Father was doing.  They accused him of blasphemy for calling God His Father, because they understood that to be claim to deity.   Jesus did not correct their understanding, but rather continued to double down on His claims to be God.   He stated that he was equal with the Father  in authority over the Sabbath, equal with the Father in authority to grant eternal life and equal with God in judgment.  All of those things in John 5 are clear references to Jesus' deity.

[Retrobyter]

whoa I am not reading that

Scared?