what is the way.. for who died without hearing gospel.

[missmuffet]

Again shiloh, you are not understanding my words or what the Catholic Church teaches (and what the Orthodox, Coptic churches teach as well).   We are not talking about fallible men.  We are talking about a gift of the Holy Spirit  - the Holy Spirit must be indeed relied on, for without the Holy Spirit, the gift fails.

The bible is a book of scriptures that must be interpreted.   It is that interpretation that is in question  -  YOUR interpretation, bopeeps interpretation,  MY interpretation.   They are ALL in question because we are ALL fallible and prone to error by ourselves, even with the Holy Spirit's help individually  -  we are prone to error in undertanding the Holy Spirit's voice.  And this is all you give yourself.   Your fallible, prone to error understanding.

I understand what the RCC teaches.   You are simply not being honest about it. It has nothing to do with fallibility as much as it has to do with honesty.    

 

I'm sorry, but you demonstrate over and over and over again you have no real clue about Catholicism.  

 

You do not understand what you so freely attack.    You speak of honesty, but show no honesty in your attack on the faith of others.

 

May God have mercy.

I quote from Catholic sources and I am working off what you say in your posts.  I am not making anything up.   The problem is that I do understand what Catholicism teaches and it doesn't take college degree to understand it.   I am simply not buying your attempts to smooth over the real problems that exist when we examine the RCC in the light of Scripture.   I am quite honest in my attacks on the RCC  worldview and the mythology that surround it.

Sorry, but Catholicism isn't Christian and it isn't biblical.   It is nothing more or less than a pagan cult that simply took statues to Jupiter, Venus, Mars and substituted them with statues of Mary and dead "saints."  

I know you quote from Catholic sources.   You cherry pick and quote out of context to make it appear Catholics believe and do something they do not believe or do.

You do not understand what Catholicism teaches.   Every time you speak about it, you prove, over and over again, you do not understand what you read or speak against.

You distort the meanings of words Catholics use, and impute to their words meanings they don't mean or intend.    You do not know how to read Catholic teachings or words or prayers.  They are beyond your understanding right now for you do not understand the Catholic Culture and the ornate language it uses.  You do not understand the meanings of words they use, and you insist that their words must mean what you say they mean because it is how you use those words.

That is the path to error in understanding another.

Different cultures use words differently, and until you recognize that and understand that and seek to understand how a culture different than yours uses the same words you do but in different ways, you will NEVER understand that culture, or their words, or their actions and what they mean.     You have locked yourself into a narrow box in which Catholicism simply does not fit.  It is too grand and big for your very small box.  

The only way you can begin to understand the Catholic Church and culture is to open your box to see with new eyes.  Until then, everything you say about the Catholic Church is heavily and horribly tainted by your failure to understand.  What you are trying to do is no different than trying to fit a 3 dimensional world into 2 dimensions.  it will never fit no matter what you try to do.  

A humble heart would respond to people telling you you don't understand by first seeking to understand rather than continue in, and loudly promoting, your un-understanding of what Catholics and Orthodox and Coptic, and even some protestants believe.

 

 

I have worked with a ton of Catholics in the past.Some say they are recovering Catholics and have moved on and they do not believe in anything.Some show no fruit at all.

[thereselittleflower]

 a pagan cult that simply took statues to Jupiter, Venus, Mars and substituted them with statues of....  

~

Carved

"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. Exodus 20:4 (NIV)

Into Rock

“You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal. Exodus 34:17 (NIV)

With Love To All Who Hear

You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. Deuteronomy 5:8 (NASB)

~

Some Say

and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV)

This And That

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NIV)

But Believers Speak

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. Acts 17:11 (NIV)

The Truth In Love

But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. Jude 1:17-21 (NIV)

And In Hope

Be merciful to those who doubt; save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. Jude 1:22-25

 

Joe, you bring up something interesting:

 

Carved

"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. Exodus 20:4 (NIV)

Into Rock

“You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal. Exodus 34:17 (NIV)

With Love To All Who Hear

You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. Deuteronomy 5:8 (NASB)

 

What did God command of Moses, and what did Moses command of the Israelites?

The Bronze Snake

4They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea,^c to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way; 5they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!”

6Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you. Pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.

8The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 

9So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.

<image>http://www.wga.hu/support/viewer_m/z.html</image>

Do you think people suffering from the bites of these firey snakes would simply and calmly look at this brazen snake made out of metal and elevated on a pole for all to see?    That would be totally nonsensical.  They were probably on their knees and prostrate before it as they gazed upon it in terrible pain.

 

What did God command Moses to do?

The Ark

Ex 25:10“ Have them make an ark^b of acacia wood—two and a half cubits long, a cubit and a half wide, and a cubit and a half high.^c 11 Overlay it with pure gold, both inside and out, and make a gold molding around it. 12 Cast four gold rings for it and fasten them to its four feet, with two rings on one side and two rings on the other.13 Then make poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold. 14 Insert the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark to carry it. 15 The poles are to remain in the rings of this ark; they are not to be removed. 16 Then put in the ark the tablets of the covenant law, which I will give you.

17“Make an atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. 18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover. 21 Place the cover on top of the ark and put in the ark the tablets of the covenant law that I will give you. 22 There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.

 

Ex 37:6 He made the atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. 7Then he made two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 8 He made one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; at the two ends he made them of one piece with the cover. 9The cherubim had their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim faced each other, looking toward the cover.

 

What did God command Moses to do?

 

The Tabernacle

Ex 26:1 “Make the tabernacle with ten curtains of finely twisted linen and blue, purple and scarlet yarn, with cherubim woven into them by a skilled worker. 2 All the curtains are to be the same size—twenty-eight cubits long and four cubits wide.^a 3J oin five of the curtains together, and do the same with the other five. 4 Make loops of blue material along the edge of the end curtain in one set, and do the same with the end curtain in the other set. 5 Make fifty loops on one curtain and fifty loops on the end curtain of the other set, with the loops opposite each other. 6 Then make fifty gold clasps and use them to fasten the curtains together so that the tabernacle is a unit.

The Tabernacle

Ex 36:8 All those who were skilled among the workers made the tabernacle with ten curtains of finely twisted linen and blue, purple and scarlet yarn, with cherubim woven into them by expert hands. 9 All the curtains were the same size—twenty-eight cubits long and four cubits wide.^a 

35They made the curtain of blue, purple and scarlet yarn and finely twisted linen, with cherubim woven into it by a skilled worker. 36They made four posts of acacia wood for it and overlaid them with gold. They made gold hooks for them and cast their four silver bases.

 

 

 

What did God command Solomon through David to do?  

1 Chronicles 28

11 Then David gave his son Solomon the plans for the portico of the temple, its buildings, its storerooms, its upper parts, its inner rooms and the place of atonement. 12 He gave him the plans of all that the Spirit had put in his mind for the courts of the temple of the Lord and all the surrounding rooms, for the treasuries of the temple of God and for the treasuries for the dedicated things. 13 He gave him instructions for the divisions of the priests and Levites, and for all the work of serving in the temple of the Lord, as well as for all the articles to be used in its service. 14 He designated the weight of gold for all the gold articles to be used in various kinds of service, and the weight of silver for all the silver articles to be used in various kinds of service: 15 the weight of gold for the gold lampstands and their lamps, with the weight for each lampstand and its lamps; and the weight of silver for each silver lampstand and its lamps, according to the use of each lampstand;16 the weight of gold for each table for consecrated bread; the weight of silver for the silver tables; 17 the weight of pure gold for the forks, sprinkling bowls and pitchers; the weight of gold for each gold dish; the weight of silver for each silver dish; 18 and the weight of the refined gold for the altar of incense. He also gave him the plan for the chariot, that is, the cherubim of gold that spread their wings and overshadow the ark of the covenant of the Lord.

19 “All this,” David said, “I have in writing as a result of the Lord’s hand on me, and he enabled me to understand all the details of the plan.”

20 David also said to Solomon his son, “Be strong and courageous, and do the work. Do not be afraid or discouraged, for the Lord God, my God, is with you. He will not fail you or forsake you until all the work for the service of the temple of the Lord is finished. 21 The divisions of the priests and Levites are ready for all the work on the temple of God, and every willing person skilled in any craft will help you in all the work. The officials and all the people will obey your every command.”

 

What did Solomon do?

 

1 Kings 6:14 So Solomon built the temple and completed it. 15 He lined its interior walls with cedar boards, paneling them from the floor of the temple to the ceiling, and covered the floor of the temple with planks of juniper. 16 He partitioned off twenty cubits at the rear of the temple with cedar boards from floor to ceiling to form within the temple an inner sanctuary, the Most Holy Place. 17The main hall in front of this room was forty cubitsⁱ long. 18 The inside of the temple was cedar, carved with gourds and open flowers. Everything was cedar; no stone was to be seen.

19 He prepared the inner sanctuary within the temple to set the ark of the covenant of the Lord there. 20The inner sanctuary was twenty cubits long, twenty wide and twenty high. He overlaid the inside with pure gold, and he also overlaid the altar of cedar. 21 Solomon covered the inside of the temple with pure gold, and he extended gold chains across the front of the inner sanctuary, which was overlaid with gold. 22 So he overlaid the whole interior with gold. He also overlaid with gold the altar that belonged to the inner sanctuary.

23 For the inner sanctuary he made a pair of cherubim out of olive wood, each ten cubits high. 24 One wing of the first cherub was five cubits long, and the other wing five cubits—ten cubits from wing tip to wing tip. 25 The second cherub also measured ten cubits, for the two cherubim were identical in size and shape. 26 The height of each cherub was ten cubits. 27 He placed the cherubim inside the innermost room of the temple, with their wings spread out. The wing of one cherub touched one wall, while the wing of the other touched the other wall, and their wings touched each other in the middle of the room. 28 He overlaid the cherubim with gold.

29 On the walls all around the temple, in both the inner and outer rooms, he carved cherubim, palm trees and open flowers. 30  He also covered the floors of both the inner and outer rooms of the temple with gold.

31 For the entrance to the inner sanctuary he made doors out of olive wood that were one fifth of the width of the sanctuary. 32 And on the two olive-wood doors he carved cherubim, palm trees and open flowers, and overlaid the cherubim and palm trees with hammered gold. 33 In the same way, for the entrance to the main hall he made doorframes out of olive wood that were one fourth of the width of the hall. 34 He also made two doors out of juniper wood, each having two leaves that turned in sockets. 35 He carved cherubim, palm trees and open flowers on them and overlaid them with gold hammered evenly over the carvings.

 

    

1 Kings 6:15 He cast two bronze pillars, each eighteen cubits high and twelve cubits in circumference.^h 16 He also made two capitals of cast bronze to set on the tops of the pillars; each capital was five cubitsⁱ high. 17 A network of interwoven chains adorned the capitals on top of the pillars, seven for each capital. 18 He made pomegranates in two rows^j encircling each network to decorate the capitals on top of the pillars.^k He did the same for each capital. 19 The capitals on top of the pillars in the portico were in the shape of lilies, four cubits^l high. 20 On the capitals of both pillars, above the bowl-shaped part next to the network, were the two hundred pomegranates in rows all around. 21He erected the pillars at the portico of the temple. The pillar to the south he named Jakin^m and the one to the north Boaz.ⁿ 22The capitals on top were in the shape of lilies. And so the work on the pillars was completed.

23He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits^o to measure around it.24Below the rim, gourds encircled it—ten to a cubit. The gourds were cast in two rows in one piece with the Sea.

25The Sea stood on twelve bulls, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east. The Sea rested on top of them, and their hindquarters were toward the center. 26It was a handbreadth^p in thickness, and its rim was like the rim of a cup, like a lily blossom. It held two thousand baths.^q

 

 

  

 

 

 

And then what happened next?

The Ark of the Covenant entered the Temple and was installed in the Holy of Holies.

 

2 Chronicles 5:6-10

Also King Solomon, and all the congregation of Israel who were assembled with him before the ark, were sacrificing sheep and oxen that could not be counted or numbered for multitude. Then the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of theLORD to its place, into the inner sanctuary of the temple, to the Most Holy Place, under the wings of the cherubim. For the cherubim spread their wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubim overshadowed the ark and its poles. And the poles extended so that the ends of the poles of the ark could be seen from the holy place, in front of the inner sanctuary; but they could not be seen from outside. And they are there to this day. Nothing was in the ark except the two tablets which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they had come out of Egypt.

 

 

Then what did God do?

 

2 Chronicles 5:11-14

And it came to pass when the priests came out of the Most Holy Place (for all the priests who were present had sanctified themselves, without keeping to their divisions), and the Levites who were the singers, all those of Asaph and Heman and Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, stood at the east end of the altar, clothed in white linen, having cymbals, stringed instruments and harps, and with them one hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets;

Indeed it came to pass, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD, and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised theLORD, saying: "For He is good, For His mercy endures forever," that the house, the house of the LORD, was filled with a cloud, so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the LORD filled the house of God.

 

God filled the temple with His Glory.

 

God obviously approved.

 

Joe, if these verses you quoted above mean that the Catholic use of images is in violation of those commands, then God Himself is in violation of His own commands and has caused many, many people to also be in violation of His commands.

 

Obviously there is something wrong with using those verses to prove the Catholic Church is doing something wrong by using images.   If the Catholic Church is guilty of breaking those rules then all the Jewish people are as well in obeying Moses, David and Solomon in the making and using of such images.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[missmuffet]

The Catholic Church uses a lot of graven images and they are wrong and not Biblical.

[thereselittleflower]

Again shiloh, you are not understanding my words or what the Catholic Church teaches (and what the Orthodox, Coptic churches teach as well).   We are not talking about fallible men.  We are talking about a gift of the Holy Spirit  - the Holy Spirit must be indeed relied on, for without the Holy Spirit, the gift fails.

The bible is a book of scriptures that must be interpreted.   It is that interpretation that is in question  -  YOUR interpretation, bopeeps interpretation,  MY interpretation.   They are ALL in question because we are ALL fallible and prone to error by ourselves, even with the Holy Spirit's help individually  -  we are prone to error in undertanding the Holy Spirit's voice.  And this is all you give yourself.   Your fallible, prone to error understanding.

I understand what the RCC teaches.   You are simply not being honest about it. It has nothing to do with fallibility as much as it has to do with honesty.    

 

I'm sorry, but you demonstrate over and over and over again you have no real clue about Catholicism.  

 

You do not understand what you so freely attack.    You speak of honesty, but show no honesty in your attack on the faith of others.

 

May God have mercy.

I quote from Catholic sources and I am working off what you say in your posts.  I am not making anything up.   The problem is that I do understand what Catholicism teaches and it doesn't take college degree to understand it.   I am simply not buying your attempts to smooth over the real problems that exist when we examine the RCC in the light of Scripture.   I am quite honest in my attacks on the RCC  worldview and the mythology that surround it.

Sorry, but Catholicism isn't Christian and it isn't biblical.   It is nothing more or less than a pagan cult that simply took statues to Jupiter, Venus, Mars and substituted them with statues of Mary and dead "saints."  

I know you quote from Catholic sources.   You cherry pick and quote out of context to make it appear Catholics believe and do something they do not believe or do.

You do not understand what Catholicism teaches.   Every time you speak about it, you prove, over and over again, you do not understand what you read or speak against.

You distort the meanings of words Catholics use, and impute to their words meanings they don't mean or intend.    You do not know how to read Catholic teachings or words or prayers.  They are beyond your understanding right now for you do not understand the Catholic Culture and the ornate language it uses.  You do not understand the meanings of words they use, and you insist that their words must mean what you say they mean because it is how you use those words.

That is the path to error in understanding another.

Different cultures use words differently, and until you recognize that and understand that and seek to understand how a culture different than yours uses the same words you do but in different ways, you will NEVER understand that culture, or their words, or their actions and what they mean.     You have locked yourself into a narrow box in which Catholicism simply does not fit.  It is too grand and big for your very small box.  

The only way you can begin to understand the Catholic Church and culture is to open your box to see with new eyes.  Until then, everything you say about the Catholic Church is heavily and horribly tainted by your failure to understand.  What you are trying to do is no different than trying to fit a 3 dimensional world into 2 dimensions.  it will never fit no matter what you try to do.  

A humble heart would respond to people telling you you don't understand by first seeking to understand rather than continue in, and loudly promoting, your un-understanding of what Catholics and Orthodox and Coptic, and even some protestants believe.

 

 

I have worked with a ton of Catholics in the past.Some say they are recovering Catholics and have moved on and they do not believe in anything.Some show no fruit at all.

 

Unfortunately, those "ton of Catholics" didn't understand their faith well enough to show you what the Catholic Church really teaches and believes, and were susceptible to the anti Catholic challenges put to them.   The unfortunate truth is catechesis in the Catholic Church has been very poor since the middle of last century, and Catholics are generally ill equipped to do apologetic work, and so they succumb to the myths and lies told them about Her.

People like myself, however, who have had to address every myth and lie floating around out there against the Catholic Church in order to be able to pull away the veil that covered our eyes, are very well equipped to address the challenges that take the unsuspecting unawares away from the legitimate faith in God they were a part of in the Catholic Church.    

You have simply been using their ignorance against them to manipulate them out of the Catholic Church.    You have actually brought harm to them spiritually bopeep.   I am not saying that to accuse you, I believe you have had the best of intentions, but your own ignorance has contributed to theirs, and I am simply sharing the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[gdemoss]

When people say "I am not saying this to accuse you" they generally do so because they cannot get passed their conscience convicting them of being an accuser.

[thereselittleflower]

The Catholic Church uses a lot of graven images and they are wrong and not Biblical.

 

Did you even read the post above yours bopeep?   Do you see how illogical such a statement is when God Himself commanded the use of "graven images" in Jewish worship?

You simply do not understand what the words  "graven images" mean.  

 

If they mean what you say they mean, then God broke His own commandments by telling Moses to make a brazen snake that people were to look to to be healed.

If they mean what you say they mean,  then God broke His own commandments by telling Moses to make the Ark of the Covenant with cherubim on top.

If they mean what you say they mean,  then God broke His own commandments by telling Moses to use images of Cherubim on the drapes that surrounded the Tabernacle.

If they mean what you say they mean,  then God broke His own commandments by telling David to have Solomon build the temple with all those sculpted and engraved images all throughout it.

Do you think God would have allowed the Ark of the Covenant to be brought there if He did not want those images there?

Do you think God would have filled such a temple with His Shekina Glory if He did not want those images there?

 

2 Chronicles 5:11-14

And it came to pass when the priests came out of the Most Holy Place (for all the priests who were present had sanctified themselves, without keeping to their divisions), and the Levites who were the singers, all those of Asaph and Heman and Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, stood at the east end of the altar, clothed in white linen, having cymbals, stringed instruments and harps, and with them one hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets;

 

Indeed it came to pass, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD, and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised theLORD, saying: "For He is good, For His mercy endures forever," that the house, the house of the LORD, was filled with a cloud, so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the LORD filled the house of God.

 

God obviously fully approved.

Obviously those words "graven images"  don't mean what you want them to mean.

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[thereselittleflower]

When people say "I am not saying this to accuse you" they generally do so because they cannot get passed their conscience convicting them of being an accuser.

"usually" does not mean always.  

Informing is not the same as accusing.

What I was saying is I was not accusing bopeep of malicious intent.    I think bopeep is very well intentioned, but the end result is spiritual harm to those who have left the Catholic faith because of the myths and lies bopeep learned from others and has been repeating.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[gdemoss]

When people say "I am not saying this to accuse you" they generally do so because they cannot get passed their conscience convicting them of being an accuser.

"usually" does not mean always.  

Informing is not the same as accusing.

What I was saying is I was not accusing bopeep of malicious intent.    I think bopeep is very well intentioned, but the end result is spiritual harm to those who have left the Catholic faith because of the myths and lies bopeep learned from others and has been repeating.

 

 

Usually does not mean always that is true.  But having listened to you for awhile I am leaning toward you being an accuser who misguidedly thinks they are merely informing some other poor victim when you are the victim of that which you believe others to be.  Harder to tell on a message board than in person.

[Guest shiloh357]

The Catholic Church uses a lot of graven images and they are wrong and not Biblical.

Then the onus is on you to prove that catholics believe divinity or virtue are placed in the graven images itself and the honor is not directed towards Christ himself.

Can you do that?

The image of the cross to catholics which included myself, was a reminder of the high cost of our salvation as well as Christ words to us:

"If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." [Mark 8:34]

All you  have to do is read the prayers of the Catholics to the dead saints for help, protection, intercession, etc.   Everything we are supposed to be asking God for, they are asking from dead saints.   Pope John Paul II   attributed his recovering from an assassination attempt to Mary.   He gave Mary ALL of the credit for his healing.   While he was recovering people were out in St. Peter's Square praying to an image of Mary for the Pope's healing.   They are constantly attributing redemptive virtues to saints, redemptive virtues that the Bible ascribes to God alone.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

 

That only applies to issues of conscience pertaining to fasting, and not the idol worship, angel worship and Mariolatry of the RCC.  

Thanks Shilo.