Worst sinner in Christian history

[thereselittleflower]

judas the betrayer was irredeemable.  he sinned a sin that could not be forgiven,

like esau did, but far far far worse.

 

there are multitudes of people on earth today who have and who will sin a sin that is not to be prayed for even (as it is written in GOD'S WORD),

a sin that leads to death.

 

there are multitudes of people on earth today whose sin we cannot even discuss,

it is so despicable, vile, detestable in God's Sight (see Proverbs for what God detests), and they have no thought of repenting - they will never be forgiven....

 

a few find the narrow road to life, and are forgiven and granted eternal life.

many stay on the wide road to destruction,  and continually refuse to ask God for help.

 

Scripture doesn't mince words about these things.

 

 

Jeff,  oldschool is correct.    No one is outside of God's forgiveness unless they take themselves there.    There is only one sin that is unforgivable.  If betraying Jesus is that sin, then Peter would also be lost  and this before Jesus was crucified.

 

Both Judas and Peter repented.

 

The difference between Peter and Judas is Judas despaired and took his own life.  Peter did not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Matthew 26:24  The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

Agreed.  Scripture says that Satan entered him.  I don't believe that is something that could  be forgiven.

 

 

 

So people possessed by satan are doomed to hell?   Satan's possession of someone is stronger and more powerful than God's power to deliver and redeem?

[thereselittleflower]

as I see it,everyone until breathed on by Yahweh,can only just take

it by faith as it is written

plainly and directly, because

the Jews perspective was very much different from the gentiles, 

and is still much different from the gentiles with gentile thinking,

and

i don't think it's possible to understand with current gentile perspective

but rather simply just accept what is written in Scripture as it is until and

unless you seek and are granted the Jewish understanding by grace from the Father in heaven.

this isn't doublespeak at all, really.  i just have not so far found a way to explain it

to anyone who still has the gentile perspective...  (maybe I'll meet someone now ?)

(I had no idea on this myself until it was granted

to me by sheer and unexpected grace from the Father in heaven)...

 

Jeff how do you know you properly understand what is written in scripture?

[thereselittleflower]

 

judas the betrayer was irredeemable.  he sinned a sin that could not be forgiven,

like esau did, but far far far worse.

 

there are multitudes of people on earth today who have and who will sin a sin that is not to be prayed for even (as it is written in GOD'S WORD),

a sin that leads to death.

 

there are multitudes of people on earth today whose sin we cannot even discuss,

it is so despicable, vile, detestable in God's Sight (see Proverbs for what God detests), and they have no thought of repenting - they will never be forgiven....

 

a few find the narrow road to life, and are forgiven and granted eternal life.

many stay on the wide road to destruction,  and continually refuse to ask God for help.

 

Scripture doesn't mince words about these things.

 

As far as I know from reading the Bible, Judas didn't SEEK forgiveness so was doomed to hell.  I don't think he was irredeemable except by choice.

 

 

I agree.    The only sin that is unforgivable is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.   I doubt that most people even know what that is let alone be able to commit it.

 

Judas repented -  he sincerely repented.  He took the money back to the Jewish leaders.   He proclaimed his sin.   He repented of his sin.  But he despaired of finding forgiveness and took his own life by his choice, which removed him from this life and finding forgiveness for his sin.

 

 

 

 

Matthew 27:3-10King James Version (KJV)

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood.

 

Judas did repent....

According to the Amplified Bible, he was remorseful.

"When Judas, His betrayer, saw that [Jesus] was condemned, [Judas was [a]afflicted in mind and troubled for his former folly; and] with remorse [with little more than a selfish dread of the consequences] he brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders...."

[a]Jeremy Taylor and Aristotle, cited by Richard Trench, Synonyms of the New Testament.

However, a Jesuit once said that Judas, unlike Peter, "repented unto himself" and committed suicide out of despair.

 

 

 

Yes, repentance starts with remorse and regret, and Judas began on the path of repentance, but never completed it.  His his words and actions demonstrate how very deep and real and sincere his regret and remose was.  But he could not get past this regret  - he could not see himself forgiven, and despaired of God's forgiveness.  

[Ezra]

judas the betrayer was irredeemable.  he sinned a sin that could not be forgiven ...

How could Judas have sinned against the Holy Spirit when He didn't yet come?

Peter denied Jesus not once, but three times, yet he was forgiven.

The Holy Spirit was always present (since He is God), and He was present when the Pharisees blasphemed Him, and also when Judas betrayed Christ.  His "coming", or the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, was a different matter.

[thereselittleflower]

Paul said he was the worst sinner.

[thereselittleflower]

(from the testimony of many throughout history since Yeshua walked on earth)

i think every believer gets to the point of saying that they themselves are the worst of sinners when they realize the depth and breadth and detestable condition they are in

before they are redeemed by the blood of the lamb who was slain for them.

 

paul would not call himself a Christian today, most likely, from his own words (his own description of his life and the life of the other martyrs) vs Christian's own words (the description of themselves) today.

 

judas the betrayer,  would anyone from any time dare say judas was ever a Christian ?   Yeshua called him a devil.

 

 

Jesus called Peter Satan.

 

Was Peter a christian?

[OldSchool2]

judas the betrayer was irredeemable.  he sinned a sin that could not be forgiven ...

How could Judas have sinned against the Holy Spirit when He didn't yet come?

Peter denied Jesus not once, but three times, yet he was forgiven.

The Holy Spirit was always present (since He is God), and He was present when the Pharisees blasphemed Him, and also when Judas betrayed Christ.  His "coming", or the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, was a different matter.

As in the difference between present and apparent?

[OldSchool2]

Yeshua never called Peter a christian....

No disciple was called a Christian until the Gospel reached Antioch (Acts 11:26).

[thereselittleflower]

Yeshua never called Peter a christian.

 

And Yeshua and Peter today would blast the roman abomination the same way only worse than

they addressed the sons of the devil back before 100a.d. when they walked on earth.

 

Yeshua's warnings about the roman abomination are very strong.   it is His enemy.

 

 

It is my prayer that some day you learn the truth.

[thereselittleflower]

So Jeff, in your mind the only ones who would take issue with the type of blatant attacks against the Catholic Church you engage in would be Catholics?    

 

I am very, very sorry, but you are indeed wrong in such an assumption.  There are many protestants who know their history better than you, and find such statements to be so much dust in the wind.  

 

Am I right in guessing you rely on Chick tracks for your information?

 

 

And I notice you are avoiding the scriptures I've based my questions and statements on.    What I am interested in is what do the scriptures say, and how do we understand them in the context of the time, culture, people, customs and language they are written in?

 

 

So Jesus called Peter satan.  How does that differ from Jesus calling Judas a devil?