2 Chorinthians 3:14-16

[Pamelasv]

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. ...but whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is taken away.'

I would have thought the veil would be removed so they could see their need for the Lord, but why is the veil removed AFTER someone turns to the Lord? What are they seeing after turning to the Lord not seen before?

[bigape]

Hello Pamelasv

This is talking about the Jews, who are “already God’s people”, but are being blinded for a season(so that they will not have to be judged), until the mid-point of the tribulation, when the LORD will save the whole nation in one day.
(Most of this truth, can be found, in a detailed study of Romans 11:1-ff)
------------------------
One of the main keys of interpreting the Bible is to determine, who is being talked to or about: There are three groups of people talked about in the Bible.  (The Jews, the Gentiles and the Church of God!)......
 “Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:”  (1 Corinthians 10:32)

Grasping this one fact, brings light and understanding to much of the New Testament!
 

[Your closest friendnt]

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. ...but whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is taken away.'

I would have thought the veil would be removed so they could see their need for the Lord, but why is the veil removed AFTER someone turns to the Lord? What are they seeing after turning to the Lord not seen before?

.

The ultimate question is, what are they seeing after turning to the Lord, not seen before?

They see another profile of Christ, they see him through Esaias 53: the passion of Christ, they see the sign of the serpant in the desert lifted up,that the bite of the snake can not give them death, that separates from God,they see that Christ must die,see Jesus lifted up, and his resuraction and him seated on the throne of God in the heavens And the authotity and rulership of Christ. They see the Heavenly Promise Land, Jesus been the Ruler on the Throne. And they see them selfs there not only with him but also with God the Father and Abraham and Moses and people from the whole world.

[Pamelasv]

After typing it out I thought when they turn to the Lord and God reveals Christ to them.

[Ezra]

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. ...but whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is taken away.'

I would have thought the veil would be removed so they could see their need for the Lord, but why is the veil removed AFTER someone turns to the Lord? What are they seeing after turning to the Lord not seen before?

The Bible is generally a closed book to those who have not been born again.  The "natural man" does not receive the things of the Spirit.  Those who turn to the Lord in faith as their Lord and Savior receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit who teaches us the meaning of Bible Truth.

[Your closest friendnt]

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. ...but whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is taken away.'

I would have thought the veil would be removed so they could see their need for the Lord, but why is the veil removed AFTER someone turns to the Lord? What are they seeing after turning to the Lord not seen before?

The Bible is generally a closed book to those who have not been born again. The "natural man" does not receive the things of the Spirit. Those who turn to the Lord in faith as their Lord and Savior receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit who teaches us the meaning of Bible Truth.

.

I am not sure about that, that the bible is for believers only, I know that many Moslems the least have believed after reading the bible.

They read the bible as unbelievers.

The same thing in the question above,

People with the vail, some how they are informed of the Gospel of Jesus and as the holy spirit is working with them ( in their ignorance of course) and not only the holy spirit, but other spirits try to persuade them not to believe, and the holy spirit to believe.

When they accept the guidance of the holy spirit and believe the vail is gone.

The blind see.

We can see, that is not only important to inform about the Gospel, but what tehnic we sould use in every peculiar situation.

To some one who believed in God the need for Christ, to Asians different tehnics got their differents believes, to Greek orthodox, the knowledge that they have peace with God through Jesus Christ, to remove the fear of death, and so on.......your input?

[Willa]

 

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. ...but whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is taken away.'

I would have thought the veil would be removed so they could see their need for the Lord, but why is the veil removed AFTER someone turns to the Lord? What are they seeing after turning to the Lord not seen before?

The Bible is generally a closed book to those who have not been born again.  The "natural man" does not receive the things of the Spirit.  Those who turn to the Lord in faith as their Lord and Savior receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit who teaches us the meaning of Bible Truth.

 

 

 I so agree with Ezra.  Before being born again, the Holy Spirit may be drawing us to Christ, but He first reveals sin of unbelief, righteousness and judgement to unbelievers.  He may draw people to read the Bible prior to salvation, but it is not until they have turned to receive Christ's forgiveness and worship Him as the risen Lord, that they are born again.  Then the Comforter (Helper, Advocate)  begins to lead us into ALL truth and enlighten God's Word to us.  1 Cor. 2:14 NKJV   But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  JN 14:17 The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him;  but you know Him for He dwells with you and will be in you.   Jn 16:13  However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth;  

[Willa]

 

 

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. ...but whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is taken away.'

I would have thought the veil would be removed so they could see their need for the Lord, but why is the veil removed AFTER someone turns to the Lord? What are they seeing after turning to the Lord not seen before?

The Bible is generally a closed book to those who have not been born again. The "natural man" does not receive the things of the Spirit. Those who turn to the Lord in faith as their Lord and Savior receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit who teaches us the meaning of Bible Truth.

.

I am not sure about that, that the bible is for believers only, I know that many Moslems the least have believed after reading the bible.

They read the bible as unbelievers.

The same thing in the question above,

People with the vail, some how they are informed of the Gospel of Jesus and as the holy spirit is working with them ( in their ignorance of course) and not only the holy spirit, but other spirits try to persuade them not to believe, and the holy spirit to believe.

When they accept the guidance of the holy spirit and believe the vail is gone.

The blind see.

We can see, that is not only important to inform about the Gospel, but what tehnic we sould use in every peculiar situation.

To some one who believed in God the need for Christ, to Asians different tehnics got their differents believes, to Greek orthodox, the knowledge that they have peace with God through Jesus Christ, to remove the fear of death, and so on.......your input?

 

Should they come earnestly seeking the truth, God will give them more.  But if they read the Bible to prove Christians wrong and to mock Christ, they will continue in blindness.  Yet no one can truly understand the Bible without having first received Christ as Lord and Savior.  They will only be convicted of sin of unbelief, righteousness and judgement.  

 

God does use different ways of leading us to that understanding of sin, righteousness and judgement.  Campus Crusade uses an illustration of a carnal "Christian" who has a chaotic life in which self is in control:  no desire for Bible study, a lack of prayer, no love, joy and peace.  They then compare that with the Spirit filled life, in which all those things exist and Christ reigns in their lives.  It draws many people to understand that while they are taught they have it all since they were baptized as infants and confirmed, they may not be living a Christ filled life;  then they start from scratch, inviting Christ into every area of their lives and asking to be (re)filled with the Holy Spirit.  It is very effective for those who believe they are saved by rituals and not by faith alone.  

[Your closest friendnt]

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. ...but whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is taken away.'

I would have thought the veil would be removed so they could see their need for the Lord, but why is the veil removed AFTER someone turns to the Lord? What are they seeing after turning to the Lord not seen before?

The Bible is generally a closed book to those who have not been born again. The "natural man" does not receive the things of the Spirit. Those who turn to the Lord in faith as their Lord and Savior receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit who teaches us the meaning of Bible Truth.

.

I am not sure about that, that the bible is for believers only, I know that many Moslems the least have believed after reading the bible.

They read the bible as unbelievers.

The same thing in the question above,

People with the vail, some how they are informed of the Gospel of Jesus and as the holy spirit is working with them ( in their ignorance of course) and not only the holy spirit, but other spirits try to persuade them not to believe, and the holy spirit to believe.

When they accept the guidance of the holy spirit and believe the vail is gone.

The blind see.

We can see, that is not only important to inform about the Gospel, but what tehnic we sould use in every peculiar situation.

To some one who believed in God the need for Christ, to Asians different tehnics got their differents believes, to Greek orthodox, the knowledge that they have peace with God through Jesus Christ, to remove the fear of death, and so on.......your input?

Should they come earnestly seeking the truth, God will give them more. But if they read the Bible to prove Christians wrong and to mock Christ, they will continue in blindness. Yet no one can truly understand the Bible without having first received Christ as Lord and Savior. They will only be convicted of sin of unbelief, righteousness and judgement.

God does use different ways of leading us to that understanding of sin, righteousness and judgement. Campus Crusade uses an illustration of a carnal "Christian" who has a chaotic life in which self is in control: no desire for Bible study, a lack of prayer, no love, joy and peace. They then compare that with the Spirit filled life, in which all those things exist and Christ reigns in their lives. It draws many people to understand that while they are taught they have it all since they were baptized as infants and confirmed, they may not be living a Christ filled life; then they start from scratch, inviting Christ into every area of their lives and asking to be (re)filled with the Holy Spirit. It is very effective for those who believe they are saved by rituals and not by faith alone.

.

I agree you have put in a good way, for the disciple, the fervent beleiver, the one who want to be in a possession to face God without fear, and with a good consience, to be found with a white raiment, and the reward of the good stuiard, I accept your guidance and I will recommen it.

There is something that concern me thought.

Not to fall in the trap of judgement, and believing that we help believers to live the good life, if we scared them that they will go to Hell , because they don't not have their own RIGHTESNESS together with Jesus RIGHTESNESS.

I am carefull not to say something that judges the faith of some beleivers who are within the clarification "even to those who call upon his name" if not how can I tell them, Jesus has bought us with his blood, we are under the blood of his attonment, which a Jweis person can understan that. And will ask? What should I do with my sin If I sin again. Then I can tell him it is under the eternal fountent of the blood,

You don't go out of the blood and then back in when you repent. Then I can say you are under the blood as long as you beleive.

[Willa]

I agree with you, brother.  If we come to them asking questions we are not condemning.  If we come to them reasoning with them in love, we are not condemning.  I hate it when preachers scream at people that they are going to hell.  My pastor does not bring up hell unless they refuse to receive Christ.  Then he tells them that there is judgement to come for those.  In our country for the last fifty years we have been taught in public schools that there in no right or wrong.  So many people do not believe there will be a judgement.  It must be explained to them that God is also a just and holy God.  He is not a Santa Clause who grants our wishes if they have been good.  Nor do they go to heaven if the good outweighs the bad they have done.  

They don't have to get saved again if they sin--they just confess it and God cleanses them from all unrighteousness--1 John 1.  And for the unknown sins and unintentional errors that don't hinder our fellowship with God or our brothers, the Blood of Christ continually cleanses us from all sin.  God works righteousness in us as He changes our hearts, motives and attitudes.  But Christ gave us His righteousness when He took our sins on the cross.  That is the righteousness that gets us into heaven, not our own.  Any changes in us are wrought by God and are not of ourselves either.  He conforms us to the likeness of Christ and refines us like gold, removing the impurities.  Praise His holy Name!!   Even faith is a gift of God and not of ourselves, so no one can boast.  He is such a marvelous God.  

 

God allows us to understand the parts of the Bible that we need to know.  So unbelievers will understand their need for salvation and that they need God's help because they can't be good enough.  They will understand that God loves them and Jesus died for their sins so that they can be acceptable to Him.  But they won't understand all the mysteries till they are born again.  Then they will begin to understand the church.  Must go now.

Blessings,

Willa