WHY is the Body of Christ `caught up?`

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Or, is the Lord's coming not contingent upon any specific number, but rather upon requisite events, which are not bound by any specific number of those to be saved?

Since the Rapture is imminent, it is not affected by events. However that Scripture does indicate a specific number -- a filling up or a full complement -- which God considers as the completion of the Church.  

This has nothing to do with the desecration or defilement (signified by "trodden down" or "trampled") of Jerusalem by the Gentiles -- called "the times of the Gentiles".

Strong's Concordance

pléróma: fullness, a filling up

Original Word: πλήρωμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pléróma
Phonetic Spelling: (play'-ro-mah)
Short Definition: fullness, fulfillment, completion
Definition: (a) a fill, fullness; full complement; supply, patch, supplement, (b) fullness, filling, fulfillment, completion.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 4138 plḗrōma – "sum total, fulness, even (super) abundance" (BAGD). See 4130(plēthō).

[Marilyn C]

On ‎23‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 3:31 PM, Ezra said:

Actually the Lord will deal with Israel's enemies single-handedly while the saints and angels observe. See Revelation 19.

Hi Ezra,

I do agree with you there, however we need to factor in that the Lord Himself told us by the Holy Spirit that the saints will judge the world system & fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3) Also we see the Heavenly court in Daniel 7: 10 & 26. (not named of course as the Body of Christ had not been revealed). So it does look that the Body of Christ will take part, support in what the Lord had decreed that we will do.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

Greetings, Marilyn and Last Daze.

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

This talk of you served to open my mind. I never had concern myself with the difference among the terms used to qualify the Church:

 

Ø  Body of Christ (Romans 7.4; 1Corinthians 10.16; 12.27; Ephesians 4.12). – Here we have the way of Jesus manifesting His life in this world through the harmonious work of each member, such as a maestro orchestrates each integrant of his equip.  

 

I go to think more about this and, when I get a answer, I post here.

May Jesus bless you.

 

Hi Leonardo Von,

You may notice I tend to focus on one part of a post. This is because to discuss the other parts would lead us off into the many tangents associated with that topic. Now I agree with that thought you had of the Body of Christ like an orchestra, with each supplying their individual gifting as the Holy Spirit leads. Great picture there bro.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

Hi Marilyn,

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

In fact, all that has to do with eschatology interests me, mainly when someone makes an intelligent question. After all, I never had thought about this. I always concern me about “when the rapture will happen” or “who will be caught up” or “How will be the rapture”, or something similarly. But it is the first time that I see someone to question this. Very good! This has opened my mind.

About the association of the circumstances in which will happen the rapture, with the old testament, I see this in a prophetical mode. Although all old testament had been for Israel, prophetically, it points to what Jesus does (and still will do) in relation to His Church.

• "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [ the things ] that are not [ yet ] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" (Isaiah 46.10).

 

May Jesus bless you.

Hi Leonardo Von,

Good point there bro, as regards Christ shown in the Old Testament as a pointer to what He will do in the future. May I suggest looking at the Prophet Zechariah 6: 13. There we see the Lord on a throne as a ......& ....... When will that happen & where? And where does that authority come from?

regards Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Because at that time the Lord is going to begin to pour out his wrath, and God has not appointed us to have any part in that wrath.

1 Thes. 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. ... 9 But God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ...

Everyone on earth will undergo at least some of the fallout from the effects of God's Wrath, even those who will be protected and provided for during that time. But the Church, the Lord's chosen, will be fully exempted from all those effects, by her being removed immediately before that Wrath begins.

Hi WilliamL,

Yes I agree with what you wrote, however it does not address what God the Father is doing in relation to His Son. It is all about us & we are not the primary focus of the WHY.

Marilyn.

[nChrist]

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 KJV  9  For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;  10  And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV  13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.  14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.  15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 KJV  9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,  10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.  11  Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Luke 21:24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

Matt. 24:14 “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

Is there really "a requisite number" that are to be saved before the Lord will come? As you say above.

Or, is the Lord's coming not contingent upon any specific number, but rather upon requisite events, which are not bound by any specific number of those to be saved?

I don't know, offhand, of any scripture that establishes the first question, would be interested to hear if you have one. Romans 11:25 does not do so to me.

 

Hi WilliamL,

I agree with you that the Lord`s coming is not contingent upon any specific number. That would make the Holy Spirit & God the Father & Jesus, all subject to man (turning to Him). The word fulfilled as Ezra pointed out means - completion. And when is the Body of Christ complete by the Holy Spirit? - when He brings it to the fullness of Christ, the Unity of Faith. (Eph. 4: 13) A complete Body that understands the true character & purposes of Christ - the big WHY. One of which we are discussing.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, Ezra said:

Marilyn,

That is the answer you are looking for.  As to "at that particular time", the timing is related to the completion of the Church -- the fulness of the Gentiles within the Church (Rom 11:25).  

When the requisite number of Gentiles has been added (which only God knows) it will be time for the Rapture.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Hi Ezra,

There is no scripture that says there needs to be a specific number of believers for the rapture to happen. The `fullness,` is referring to the completion of the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit - the fullness of Christ, the Unity of the Faith. (Eph. 4: 13)

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

19 minutes ago, nChrist said:

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 KJV  9  For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;  10  And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV  13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.  14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.  15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 KJV  9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,  10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.  11  Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Hi nChrist,

Good scripture there bro, & glad you wrote it out as not everyone looks them up. Now as I have said to others, that is in relation to us as believers, so do you see the part that says `to wait for His Son from heaven,...`  so WHY do you think God the Father sends His Son? What is going to happen in relation to the Son?

regards, Marilyn.

[nChrist]

36 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi nChrist,

Good scripture there bro, & glad you wrote it out as not everyone looks them up. Now as I have said to others, that is in relation to us as believers, so do you see the part that says `to wait for His Son from heaven,...`  so WHY do you think God the Father sends His Son? What is going to happen in relation to the Son?

regards, Marilyn.

It's all in the Scripture I quoted.