should CHRISTIANS OWN WEAPONS OR FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE SYSTEM?

[Churchmouse]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

How is self-defense NOT trusting the Lord?   Can we not trust the Lord to help us defend ourselves and our families?   It seems you are the one with the all or nothing scenario if we are supposed trust the Lord OR defend ourselves.

No, you are the one who continues to through up the idea that God would allow such a thing to happen in the first place. That's why I keep on dismissing this situation you cling to, just as I would if someone would ask me what would I do if I met Big Foot.  And yes, It Is an all or nothing thing with me because I do trust in the lord, fully, wholly and without exemptions for these situations that are continuously thrown in my direction.  God is my rock not some testosterone overloaded, chest beating, barking at the moon fantasy that one would know what one would do if confronted by a situation.

I've had a drunk, lunatic point a rifle in my face, in my own home and I am still here to talk about it. Have you?  I've already been tested and the person who did that, who I actually was acquainted with through my brother lives to my knowledge, still today. It's kind of obvious that I am here as well, so please take your little fantasy elsewhere because I've already been through this crap and prevailed.  I'm a sinners, sinner from a long way back. I've been hooked on drugs and alcohol. I've overdosed and died. My brother brought me back by dragging my motionless butt into a shower and gave me mouth to mouth while I bite him several times because of the effects of going through overdosing. I came to the next day with my senses screwed up so bad my bed felt like someone tore up thousands of Styrofoam coolers and I was laying in a pile of them.  My eye site was so messed up it looked like everything was two feet tall and ten foot wide. That continued for about 24 hours, but the permanent damage was to my short term memory. I can remember what happened a week or so ago, but I've walked through a mall before and couldn't remember the route I took when I had reached my destination.

I've been pulled over by cops and sent to jail. I have been busted in an drive-in theater, with drugs and drug paraphernalia. I've been addicted to pornography and frequented several brothels and spent pretty much my last dollar on porno magazines. Yes my friend I've went through to wringer, several times and I don't need someone throwing this what if crap in my face, when I know for a fact that we all have gifts the lord has given us to deal with adversities. I took care of that situation with the rifle in full alpha male style with a baseball bat up along the guys head, but that was when I was going through the rough parts of my Prodigal child phase, to which I have fully recovered.

I don't need some faceless individual pointing his finger at me though the safety, comfort and anonymity of the internet, asking my about my courage. I have to courage of my convictions and the history to back that up.  Do you. Dose anyone actually know what they would do if someone burst through their door with a weapon? I've seen big people choke in a fist fight so please don't think that casually talking about home defense will happen, no matter how strong your faith or lack thereof is. If you've not been through that then all this is simple bravado and fist pumping.

I will leave you with this little gem to chew on while I move on to other subjects or the door of this place if I find no reason to stay.  You do hat you think is best and the staff can do the same. I've already asked to be deleted from here and have pondered leaving twice before. So right now I'm sick and tired of defending my level of faith with those who have their own level and I don't really give a damn about being a member here.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Churchmouse

[mikefromwichita]

16 hours ago, hmbld said:

Lol guilting someone does not in any way interpret scripture. Do we live by faith, or guilt?

Once again-

Would you REALLY allow your children to be killed rather than take up a weapon to defend them?

 

BTW, do you Vote? I might add that there are many Fools who live by 'faith' in their concept of what god should be rather than Faith in God.

[other one]

1 hour ago, Churchmouse said:

And trusting God??????  That is kind of basic to Christianity.  Just as character can't be tested until you go through adversity, faith can't be trusted until you do the same. Go read a little book called Job and you'll see what happened to a man who lost everything.

That's why you need to be a homeless person.  Let God take full control of your life.  The adversity should make you a great person....

[mikefromwichita]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

How is self-defense NOT trusting the Lord?   Can we not trust the Lord to help us defend ourselves and our families?   It seems you are the one with the all or nothing scenario if we are supposed trust the Lord OR defend ourselves.

Those who marched behind Charles Martel to stop the moslems at Tours, Those who sailed with Don Juan at Lepranto to smash the moslem Turks, th e Poles who marched to the walls of Vienna to drive off the moslem Sultan's invasion were all fervent Chrisians who went into battle against heavy odds because they trusted God for the Outcome.

[mikefromwichita]

2 minutes ago, other one said:

That's why you need to be a homeless person.  Let God take full control of your life.  The adversity should make you a great person....

Becoming a beggar in the streets due to behaviours God Condemns hardly makes a person a Christian poster child.

[other one]

3 minutes ago, mikefromwichita said:

Becoming a beggar in the streets due to behaviours God Condemns hardly makes a person a Christian poster child.

But you won't be a beggar for God will care of you just like he'll take care of my family when thugs break into my house....   no difference really.,,,  no difference at all.

[Guest shiloh357]

42 minutes ago, Churchmouse said:

No, you are the one who continues to through up the idea that God would allow such a thing to happen in the first place.

So you are going to argue that God would not allow a Christian to be attacked by a criminal? 
 

Quote

That's why I keep on dismissing this situation you cling to, just as I would if someone would ask me what would I do if I met Big Foot. 

That is not a valid comparison.  Being assaulted by someone breaking into your home is not far fetched; Bigfoot is.   Treating a situation like assault as if it is as silly as Bigfoot demonstrates that you are really not taking the discussion seriously and are willing to descend into absurdity.

Quote

And yes, It Is an all or nothing thing with me because I do trust in the lord, fully, wholly and without exemptions for these situations that are continuously thrown in my direction.  God is my rock not some testosterone overloaded, chest beating, barking at the moon fantasy that one would know what one would do if confronted by a situation.

Trusting God does not mean we will not face danger, threats, assaults, crime, etc.  Trust has its greatest value when we do face suffering and pain and adversity. 

Self defense is not chest beating bravado.   It is common sense.   I trust God, but I still have health insurance, fire insurance, car insurance, etc.   Being able to protect and insure yourself is part of responsible living.

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I've had a drunk, lunatic point a rifle in my face, in my own home and I am still here to talk about it. Have you?  I've already been tested and the person who did that, who I actually was acquainted with through my brother lives to my knowledge, still today. It's kind of obvious that I am here as well, so please take your little fantasy elsewhere because I've already been through this crap and prevailed. 

And there are other Christians who faced that threat and are not here to talk about it.   I don't base theology on human experience.   And the fact is that there are people who faced threats, were not prepared and died as a result.   So it is not a fantasy.  It is real life.   And so far, you still have  not shown from Scripture that self defense isn't trusting God.

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I don't need some faceless individual pointing his finger at me though the safety, comfort and anonymity of the internet, asking my about my courage.

I have not pointed a finger at you and I have not questioned your courage.  I have questioned your attempt to paint self-defense as wrong and a violation of Scripture.   So far, all you have done is rant and complain.  No substantive answers.   I guess when someone doesn't have the answers, the best way to hide that fact is to post long rants to deflect attention away from the fact that they cannot answers the question asked.

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I have to courage of my convictions and the history to back that up.  Do you. Dose anyone actually know what they would do if someone burst through their door with a weapon? I've seen big people choke in a fist fight so please don't think that casually talking about home defense will happen, no matter how strong your faith or lack thereof is. If you've not been through that then all this is simple bravado and fist pumping.

That has nothing to do with why self-defense is wrong.  You are trying to change the subject.  Sorry, not going along with that.

Quote

I will leave you with this little gem to chew on while I move on to other subjects or the door of this place if I find no reason to stay.  You do hat you think is best and the staff can do the same. I've already asked to be deleted from here and have pondered leaving twice before. So right now I'm sick and tired of defending my level of faith with those who have their own level and I don't really give a damn about being a member here.

If being unable to answer a simple question means you have to go on some pointless rant and diatribe over an issue I never raised and you feel that you need to use profanity to boot, then maybe it is time to move on.   We really don't need that nonsense in this thread.

[Guest shiloh357]

17 hours ago, hmbld said:

Lol guilting someone does not in any way interpret scripture. Do we live by faith, or guilt?

Can't you just answer the question?   Would you allow your children to be assaulted by a criminal or would you rise up to defend them?   What would you do?   Is defending your children a violation of Scripture?  

That is not guilt, by the way.  It is a challenge to how YOU interpret Scripture.

[mikefromwichita]

37 minutes ago, other one said:

But you won't be a beggar for God will care of you just like he'll take care of my family when thugs break into my house....   no difference really.,,,  no difference at all.

Yet every day we see people go hungry in the streets and the unarmed murdered by thugs. Often these are people who appear utterly sincere in their Christian Faith........................Could it be that however sincere they maybe they are wrong about what God expects from us. Perhaps it is those folks who work hard and keep weapons at hand to battle the wolves who are REALLY what God wants us to be. BTW, did David (future king) use weapons to defend his flock of sheep from predators? Simple Yes or No question.

[hmbld]

56 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Can't you just answer the question?   Would you allow your children to be assaulted by a criminal or would you rise up to defend them?   What would you do?   Is defending your children a violation of Scripture?  

That is not guilt, by the way.  It is a challenge to how YOU interpret Scripture.

Shiloh, I came here a few years ago, just a babe, and wondered why all the senior members, those exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit in nearly every post, ALWAYS refused to answer the "what if" questions.  I wondered why for a long time.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I even thought I remembered you refusing to answer the "what if" questions.  I've gotten a little carried away from time to time, but my real interest in this thread, is the promotion of weapons justified by a few verses that some have added their own value to, claiming it is proven, but really it is just their opinion.  I just bought a basic .223 to keep my great Pyrenese from getting killed by the coyote problem we are having here, many neighbors dogs have been attacked, and I fear losing my dog, Sam.  He has done an excellent job in his two years, haven't lost a single chicken, or baby pig that I have in the woods, or goat in the pasture.  Sam even played with the turkey, yet never harmed him.  But all the same, I can hear such a large pack of coyotes 100 yards from my house at night, I'm afraid they will lure him out and gang up on him.  Discussing scripture will indeed be personal, yet we have to be careful not to add opinion such as Jesus used a bunch of reeds to move oxen so therefore He expects me to use weapons intended to kill against other people.  I'm not saying to not defend oneself, I'm saying reeds to move oxen do not equal killing people.