Trinity Explanation...

[Botz]

Hi His Servant.

You asked.

OKAY. I am not at all trying to cause any trouble here, but feel as though this is something I might need to know. I admit I really don't understand much of this, but am wondering how the post which has been called a heresy, is a heresy? I am neither denying that it is, or agreeing...I just want someone to explain it to me if that is okay? I just want to understand so that I will not believe in something that is wrong.

I'm like the scarecrow on the Wizard of Oz...."If I only had a brain!" Well, I haven't gotten mine yet lol, so please bare with me and explain it in such a way where you feel someone without a brain might be able to understand LOL. I just do not want to follow a teaching that is false. Thanks and God Bless you all!

Seeing I was the one who declared that what Truebeliever7 was saying amounted to 'heresy' I will try and clarify it for you as succinctly and clearly as possible.

What he is declaring is that our L-rd and Saviour Jesus the Messiah is not G-d...that He is not equal with G-d ...that He is not Eternal and that ultimately He is a created being who amongst His many titles is called the Son of G-d.

This is a dangerous and pernicious teaching because it utilizes biblical terminology but employs a different understanding and explanation to what they mean and is thus camoflaged from some Believers eyes.

Any true Believer will know the voice of the Shepherd...even those who are like the scarecrow from the Wiz of Oz...and will know their L-rd and Master.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus is our Emmanuel...He is the Alpha and Omega...the Beginning and the End....He is the King of Kings and the L-rd of L-rds...Our Saviour ...Our Redeemer...He is the Word made Flesh...He is the Great Shepherd...The Rock of Ages... Prince of Peace...L-rd of Hosts...Mighty One of Israel.... Almighty G-d....Glory to His Holy Name. Amen.

Hope that hits the spot.

In Jesus our Messiah. Botz

[other one]

I don't understand how you can say that they are equal:

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also come the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection, it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection, to Him. And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, That God may be all in all.

Just this scripture makes it very difficult to accept the idea that Jesus is equal to the Father.

I would agree that Jesus is Jehovah Elohiym, but folks saw Jehovah Elohiym and Jesus told us that no one has seen the Father.

I don't understand how the equal part of the teaching of the Trinity can say that Jesus and the Father are equal and be the way it is.

Edited February 6, 2005 by other one

[Guest His_Servant]

Hi His Servant.

You asked.

OKAY. I am not at all trying to cause any trouble here, but feel as though this is something I might need to know. I admit I really don't understand much of this, but am wondering how the post which has been called a heresy, is a heresy? I am neither denying that it is, or agreeing...I just want someone to explain it to me if that is okay? I just want to understand so that I will not believe in something that is wrong.

I'm like the scarecrow on the Wizard of Oz...."If I only had a brain!" Well, I haven't gotten mine yet lol, so please bare with me and explain it in such a way where you feel someone without a brain might be able to understand LOL. I just do not want to follow a teaching that is false. Thanks and God Bless you all!

Seeing I was the one who declared that what Truebeliever7 was saying amounted to 'heresy' I will try and clarify it for you as succinctly and clearly as possible.

What he is declaring is that our L-rd and Saviour Jesus the Messiah is not G-d...that He is not equal with G-d ...that He is not Eternal and that ultimately He is a created being who amongst His many titles is called the Son of G-d.

This is a dangerous and pernicious teaching because it utilizes biblical terminology but employs a different understanding and explanation to what they mean and is thus camoflaged from some Believers eyes.

Any true Believer will know the voice of the Shepherd...even those who are like the scarecrow from the Wiz of Oz...and will know their L-rd and Master.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus is our Emmanuel...He is the Alpha and Omega...the Beginning and the End....He is the King of Kings and the L-rd of L-rds...Our Saviour ...Our Redeemer...He is the Word made Flesh...He is the Great Shepherd...The Rock of Ages... Prince of Peace...L-rd of Hosts...Mighty One of Israel.... Almighty G-d....Glory to His Holy Name. Amen.

Hope that hits the spot.

In Jesus our Messiah. Botz

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm...okay. Thanks very much! This all seems like a mess to me, but I have always believed that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh....and have always believed that he is eternal. Thanks for the explanation. God Bless!

[Guest truebeliever7]

Bolts;

In your statement to hs you say the following:

"What he is declaring is that our L-rd and Saviour Jesus the Messiah is not G-d...that He is not equal with G-d ...that He is not Eternal and that ultimately He is a created being who amongst His many titles is called the Son of G-d."

I have said Jesus is not God and I said He is the Son of God and I have the verses to prove that, as for the other part of your statement "that He is not eternal" I believe that is of your making up. If you could find it in my post and show me where I said just that I would appreciate it. I think maybe that is what you assume I mean or what you think I mean.

It is one thing to disagree with someone but to add something that the person did not say is a bit of guile.

John 17 is all the proof I need to believe what I believe it is Jesus praying to His Father. The only way to not see it is being deceived by satan and if you are deceived by satan the bad thing is your not going to know because you are deceived. I really don't see the heresy in my beliefs I believe God sent His Son for us to have a way to Him(God). The only one that doesn't want you to believe in Jesus is satan remember satan is anti-christ.

John 17:1-26

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

4 "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.

7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.

8 "For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.

11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.

12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

13 "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

16 "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.

19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;

21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

24 "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

25 "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.

26 "And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

(NKJ)

And if you can't believe in the above verses you probably fall under this one. The "love of the truth" is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God our Lord and savior;

II Th 2:9-14

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(NKJ)

[other one]

Truebeliever, even if you are correct, and I am not agreeing with everything you say here, but even if what you say was totally true, your attitude draws an extreamly strong vacuum, and your writing exposes it to the world.

se

[Botz]

Hi Other one

I had written you an answer earlier but again have somehow managed to inadvertantly delete it when I had my supper...frustrating but here goes again.

I don't understand how you can say that they are equal:

I believe that when the Scriptures refer to Jesus as L-rd they are referring to Him as L-rd of All....the True G-d. There are not two G-ds!

The doctrine of the Trinity was mans attempt to consolidate what they saw in the Scriptures as being the divine teaching on the essence,nature,position and glory of the G-dhead. It was done in order that people might see and understand the heart of the Churches belief/Creed and express unity with one another and fellowship based on this common understanding and revelation. It was also deemed necessary to protect the flock from the doctrines of false teachers that were creeping into the Church and bringing confusion, lies and the doctrines of demons that deny Christ.

Just a quick point on denying Christ (you must check these things out for yourself)

The main point where many people go astray is invariably on the person and nature of the L-rd Jesus..and the expression 'to deny Christ' is to miss or deny the full revelation of who He truely is...'Emmanuel..G-d with us'. It is essential that each of us be fully persuaded in our hearts through the Scriptures and the revelation of the Holy Ghost...exactly who Jesus is...and what is the enormity of the numerous titles that are afforded Him throughout Scripture.

Therefore when the words L-rd come from a Believers lips...they should be expressing from their heart the totality of their acknowledgement of the person and nature of Christ. Again I believe this is one of the reasons the Scriptures disclose....

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This suggests far more than a works based identity...and is really talking about a relationship from the heart...and calling Jesus L-rd...but denying the full import of what the word L-rd should encompass is denying Him...that is why He will say to MANY....I NEVER KNEW YOU....The whole thrust being..."You have denied me...and I have no choice now but to deny you".

1Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

This also enjoins us to the revelatory work of the Holy Ghost in revealing Jesus to us...it is not just head knowledge or mental ascent...it is a blinding light Damascus Road falling to the ground revelation of the King of Glory. See again what Jesus says to Peter...

Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And in case there is a question behind the term 'Son of G-d' this title in Jewish thought always carried the expression of His Divine nature....which was made more manifest by the nature of His death and ressurection.

You quoted 1 Corinthians 15:20 In which the Son is subject to the Father as seeming to imply that He was less than or inferior to the Father...I admit that at first glance it might appear that way. However you have only got to think of Jesus as an innocent vulnerable baby...or in the likeness of sinful man ...and ultimately His death on the cross...to draw the same conclusion ..you probably recall those lines by Wesley...

[Botz]

Truebeliever.

You wrote....

Botz...In your statement to hs you say the following:

"What he is declaring is that our L-rd and Saviour Jesus the Messiah is not G-d...that He is not equal with G-d ...that He is not Eternal and that ultimately He is a created being who amongst His many titles is called the Son of G-d."

I have said Jesus is not God and I said He is the Son of God and I have the verses to prove that, as for the other part of your statement "that He is not eternal" I believe that is of your making up. If you could find it in my post and show me where I said just that I would appreciate it. I think maybe that is what you assume I mean or what you think I mean.

It is one thing to disagree with someone but to add something that the person did not say is a bit of guile.

I certainly never meant to assume something that you didn't believe...and I am totally innocent of any guile that you might have suggested.

If I am wrong in the following assumption I willl gladly apologise...but it seems to me if there is an egg then there must be a chicken.

You said exact quotes.....

Now how Christ was first created I don't know and to me it really doesn't matter for the one thing people forget is we are to take God's word by faith.

and...

How Jesus was created as the Son of God I am not sure but eveything I read and what the Holy Spirit teaches me tells me Jesus is the Son of God not God.

and...

So since Jesus is the way to God and satan deceives everyone into thinking that Jesus was God then people are not going to get to God. God sent His Son for us as a way to Him and that is the only way. Jesus is that narrow gate

From these statements I drew the following conclusions.

1. You deny Christ is G-d.

2. He is therefore not equal with G-d.

3. He cannot be Eternal.

4. He must be a created being.

By using the word Eternal in this context I mean that He was from all Eternity...whereas you have denied this insisting He had a beginning by being created...thus demonstrating...He is not eternal.

You even go on to make the point that everyone who believes that Jesus is G-d has been deceived by Satan...I would say this comes close to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit whose job it is to reveal the L-rd to each of us.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Please take stock of what you are saying and read prayerfully through the Scriptures you are in serious error...and I believe you have been taught to believe a gospel that denies the Son.

[Guest truebeliever7]

Truebeliever, even if you are correct, and I am not agreeing with everything you say here, but even if what you say was totally true, your attitude draws an extreamly strong vacuum, and your writing exposes it to the world.

se

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

other one,

what did you just say? I am not sure what you are trying to tell me. And as far as my attitude I try to keep it as neutral as I can so not to anger anyone.

God bless read and believe

[JesusisGod2]

This is what I see in the bible concerning a Trinity.  May not be correct but it is what I see the scripture saying about the relationship between the three.

Exod 24 10Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet (15) there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.

John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, ' AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

46 Not that any man has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.

Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed.

Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from Him.

So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of, is not what that the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament.

Looking further:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life and the life was the light of men.

John 1:9 There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world and the world was made through Him and the world did not know Him.

John 8:57-59

57 The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

NASB

It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament days. Jesus in this form was with the Father from the beginning.

It seems to me that the people of the old testament days were not aware of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form of Jehova.

Further:

Philippians 2:5+ Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with god a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the old testament times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the Father on earth.

Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the fleshly body.

John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in me does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me;

John 17:20 Jesus prayed " I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their work: that they may all be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me"

It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit. I fear discussing the workings of The Spirit for none of this in more than my personal beliefs, and to get something wrong concerning the Spirit could be a grave mistake.

I will just say that I believe that the Holy Spirit is the spirit from The Father.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also come the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put al His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection, it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection, to Him. And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, That God may be all in all.

Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him........ The Father.

I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over all and giving it back to the Father.

1 Cor 8:5-6

5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

NASB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very Good Stuff OtherOne!!!!!!!!!

I espesially like the verse you use in Exodus this is avery helpful verse in something I am in conversation with one of my brothers from church. A+

Kevin

[Guest truebeliever7]

Truebeliever.

You wrote....

Botz...In your statement to hs you say the following:

"What he is declaring is that our L-rd and Saviour Jesus the Messiah is not G-d...that He is not equal with G-d ...that He is not Eternal and that ultimately He is a created being who amongst His many titles is called the Son of G-d."

I have said Jesus is not God and I said He is the Son of God and I have the verses to prove that, as for the other part of your statement "that He is not eternal" I believe that is of your making up. If you could find it in my post and show me where I said just that I would appreciate it. I think maybe that is what you assume I mean or what you think I mean.

It is one thing to disagree with someone but to add something that the person did not say is a bit of guile.

I certainly never meant to assume something that you didn't believe...and I am totally innocent of any guile that you might have suggested.

If I am wrong in the following assumption I will gladly apologize...but it seems to me if there is an egg then there must be a chicken.

You said exact quotes.....

Now how Christ was first created I don't know and to me it really doesn't matter for the one thing people forget is we are to take God's word by faith.

and...

How Jesus was created as the Son of God I am not sure but eveything I read and what the Holy Spirit teaches me tells me Jesus is the Son of God not God.

and...

So since Jesus is the way to God and satan deceives everyone into thinking that Jesus was God then people are not going to get to God. God sent His Son for us as a way to Him and that is the only way. Jesus is that narrow gate

From these statements I drew the following conclusions.

1. You deny Christ is G-d.

2. He is therefore not equal with G-d.

3. He cannot be Eternal.

4. He must be a created being.

By using the word Eternal in this context I mean that He was from all Eternity...whereas you have denied this insisting He had a beginning by being created...thus demonstrating...He is not eternal.

You even go on to make the point that everyone who believes that Jesus is G-d has been deceived by Satan...I would say this comes close to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit whose job it is to reveal the L-rd to each of us.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Please take stock of what you are saying and read prayerfully through the Scriptures you are in serious error...and I believe you have been taught to believe a gospel that denies the Son.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

botz;

From these statements I drew the following conclusions.

1. You deny Christ is G-d.

2. He is therefore not equal with G-d.

3. He cannot be Eternal.

4. He must be a created being.

1. I believe Jesus is the Son of God not God.

Col 1:15

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

(NKJ)

If Jesus is the firstborn over all creation He can't be God because God has been around forever and if you look up the word"image" you will find the definition to be likeness or resemblance which does not mean original but copy.

2. I didn't say that you did. Again you assumed that is what I believed. That is part of the problem we take our human knowledge and try to make what we feel is a logical conclusion but we forget that we are talking about Godly spiritual things were logic does not apply.

Phil 2:5-6

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

(NKJ)

There again Jesus being in the "form" of God. definition of form shape or nature, but not the original.

3. Again your words not mine. You appear to be drawing conclusions again.

John 3:36

36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

(NKJ)

4. Well Col 1:15 answers that now doesn't it?

Col 1:15

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

(NKJ)

quote;

"You even go on to make the point that everyone who believes that Jesus is G-d has been deceived by Satan...I would say this comes close to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit whose job it is to reveal the L-rd to each of us."

It appears that you do not know the bible very well or maybe just don't have the understanding yet I didn't take that into consideration and I owe you an apology if that is the case. You see the verse below tells me to try to set my brethren on the right course. And the truth is Jesus Christ.

James 5:19-20

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,

20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

(NKJ)

And the truth is Jesus Christ. So if you think He is the Father when He isn't I can try to turn you from the error of your way.

John 14:6

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

(NKJ)

What do you think the scriptures below means? What do you think the narrow gate represents? What do you think the false prophets are going to try to deceive

you away from? There are many that go the way of the wide gate. And there sure are alot of people who think Jesus is God and few who go by the way of the narrow gate and know that Jesus is the Son of God and not God.

Matt 7:13-16

13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

14 "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

(NKJ)

Jesus tells us in the verses below that He is the "way" or narrow gate. He is the "truth" that men wander away from, and He is the "life" everlasting life to all those who believe in Him. .

John 14:6

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

(NKJ)

Quote;

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

I know the Holy Spirit and have been taught by Him for the last 11 years as for you I do not know if you even know the Holy Spirit and how He teaches you. I know how the Holy Spirit teaches me and that is how I know which scriptures to answer you with. The only thing I have done wrong is to put more of my own words into my explanation than I should. I don't mind being called a heretic or a blasphemer because Jesus was called the some of the same things and everyone that brought Jesus Christ to people has been called them. But you might want to be careful for what we sow we will reap. And I do not grow weary.

Gal 6:8-9

8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.

(NKJ)

Matt 12:36-37

36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.

37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

(NKJ)

God bless read and believe

Edited February 7, 2005 by truebeliever7