Martyrdom in the US

[walla299]

All I'll say is this: I won't be standing there doing nothing if I am attacked and have the ability to defend myself or others. If I wind up dying while giving others a chance to get away then I don't have an issue with that, either. We're all in different places in our walks with the Lord.

[other one]

All I'll say is this: I won't be standing there doing nothing if I am attacked and have the ability to defend myself or others. If I wind up dying while giving others a chance to get away then I don't have an issue with that, either. We're all in different places in our walks with the Lord.

I would agree concerning myself....  I'm not sure about defending others    especially if it was my wife, kids or grandkids....   if I fooled around and got one of them hurt I'd be really upset with myself      alive or dead  LoL

[walla299]

All I'll say is this: I won't be standing there doing nothing if I am attacked and have the ability to defend myself or others. If I wind up dying while giving others a chance to get away then I don't have an issue with that, either. We're all in different places in our walks with the Lord.

I would agree concerning myself....  I'm not sure about defending others    especially if it was my wife, kids or grandkids....   if I fooled around and got one of them hurt I'd be really upset with myself      alive or dead  LoL

Can't say I blame you.  

I should have been a bit more specific though. I was thinking primarily in terms of a mass shooting situation like we've been seeing on the news lately. There have been church shootings too. Those are the main ones that come to mind. 

[other one]

All I'll say is this: I won't be standing there doing nothing if I am attacked and have the ability to defend myself or others. If I wind up dying while giving others a chance to get away then I don't have an issue with that, either. We're all in different places in our walks with the Lord.

I would agree concerning myself....  I'm not sure about defending others    especially if it was my wife, kids or grandkids....   if I fooled around and got one of them hurt I'd be really upset with myself      alive or dead  LoL

Can't say I blame you.  

I should have been a bit more specific though. I was thinking primarily in terms of a mass shooting situation like we've been seeing on the news lately. There have been church shootings too. Those are the main ones that come to mind. 

Yep, shoot the perp three times and pray to God that he doesn't die....

[Your closest friendnt]

If a man were able to shoot himself in the same manner that he would shoot another then and only then can it be a selfless act...
Or obedience to the Scripture
Matt 5:38-48
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
KJV
This perfection is found in the heart that is 100% fully reliant upon God and has relinquished all control
of self to that which The Word forms within them ... desiring God's glory above all else! The selfless act
'IS' that of God within working that which is without and we are the witness of such standing with Him...
Love, Steven

Very nice scriptures you brought up, I don't say is not guidance for us, because it is, but only where It is applicable. 

Certenly Jesus had to deal with very trying situations, and he had the power to change them, but he hold back, as for his mission. 

Reminding that no one took hostage a member of his family, and I am using a very gentle example. 

But if you take a close look at the scripture, you may see that he was taulking about himself, and what will happen to him, and how he will react.

Verse 38: Jesus had the power to take revence and equalize to what happen to him but he did not do it.

39:, he did exactly that, he let them smite him.

40:, they brought a charge against him, they took his honor away, and strip him from his dignity. And also his coat and his cloke.

41:, he could stop his journey, half way, but he let them lead him to where he new they will take him.

42: they asked him for the water of life and he gave it to them, he did not stop, or divert the flow, and many did not believed but tasted the benefits.

43:, and 44:, he forgave them and he offered them the olive brance, to those who help him in his mission, his tortures. 

45:, so he became the Christ of God and he died for all even for them, who had the job of driving the nails in to his hands, he rain his love upon all, he invited all to the faith.

I will leave the rest for my brother to complete, O!! I forgot, we are not in this together. God bless

[FreeinChrist]

The shooting at the community college in Roseburg was about martyrdom.  

I think christians need to start calling it what it is.

 

so do we arm ourselves or just give in?

IMO when concerning matters of our faith in Christ Jesus just give in:  He that leadeth into captivity hall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.  Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.   Revelation 13:10

But when concerning other things not concerning our faith and especially protecting our own these words Paul wrote to Timothy come to mind:  But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.   I Timothy 5:8

[enoob57]

All I'll say is this: I won't be standing there doing nothing if I am attacked and have the ability to defend myself or others. If I wind up dying while giving others a chance to get away then I don't have an issue with that, either. We're all in different places in our walks with the Lord.

I would agree concerning myself....  I'm not sure about defending others    especially if it was my wife, kids or grandkids....   if I fooled around and got one of them hurt I'd be really upset with myself      alive or dead  LoL

Just a place for you two to visit with God about this in His Word
Mark 8:34-38
34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
KJV
This is the doorway in which I entered in to understand that it is not my will, my life, my truth but His and
if The Lord allowed me to drive nails in His hands and feet, torture Him with nakedness, spit upon Him,
ridicule and mock, beat Him so He did not appear as a man, and laugh at Him all the while ... Then He
responded only with love and forgiveness... in so much that I was able to see that what He had was better
than what I had and then offered me exchange... point-> If in His own body He did this how then in this one
shall He do differently?  The time of war is coming and vengeance belongs to God...  Love, Steven
 

Edited October 3, 2015 by enoob57

[other one]

The shooting at the community college in Roseburg was about martyrdom.  

I think christians need to start calling it what it is.

 

so do we arm ourselves or just give in?

IMO when concerning matters of our faith in Christ Jesus just give in:  He that leadeth into captivity hall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.  Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.   Revelation 13:10

But when concerning other things not concerning our faith and especially protecting our own these words Paul wrote to Timothy come to mind:  But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.   I Timothy 5:8

If you die by the sword can you still go to heaven.....   would that be better than being an unwilling slave to the devil?

[walla299]

All I'll say is this: I won't be standing there doing nothing if I am attacked and have the ability to defend myself or others. If I wind up dying while giving others a chance to get away then I don't have an issue with that, either. We're all in different places in our walks with the Lord.

I would agree concerning myself....  I'm not sure about defending others    especially if it was my wife, kids or grandkids....   if I fooled around and got one of them hurt I'd be really upset with myself      alive or dead  LoL

Just a place for you two to visit with God about this in His Word
Mark 8:34-38
34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
KJV
This is the doorway in which I entered in to understand that it is not my will, my life, my truth but His and
if The Lord allowed me to drive nails in His hands and feet, torture Him with nakedness, spit upon Him,
ridicule and mock, beat Him so He did not appear as a man, and laugh at Him all the while ... Then He
responded only with love and forgiveness... in so much that I was able to see that what He had was better
than what I had and then offered me exchange... point-> If in His own body He did this how then in this one
shall He do differently?  The time of war is coming and vengeance belongs to God...  Love, Steven
 

Enoob, I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Self defense is not wrong, and neither is fighting a delaying action to allow others to get away, nor is protecting those who cannot do so themselves (i.e. your family, if attacked.)

 

[Guest Thallasa]

The shooting at the community college in Roseburg was about martyrdom.  

I think christians need to start calling it what it is.

 

so do we arm ourselves or just give in?

Or follow Jesus' words and move.

Matthew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another.

but little flower, there really is nowhere left to go...

And I personallly torn with the subject.....    do you send someone to hell that is sending you to heaven.....    do you leave your wife with MS here to fend for herself because some scumbag goes nuts....      it's not a cut and dry answer.   

 

I don't agree with Therese on this ,as this person was a disturbed person ,was he not ??  Now if he was a ''set up' by a ruling group , that is they used him ,perhaps put him on drugs ,then it is martyrdom ,but is there any proof ?