Another can of worms :D

[Ezra]

 

Paul was basically telling women to be silent and not interrupt but ask when they were alone. If men were in front and women in back they could not hear Paul's words.

While it is true that the Christian churches followed the custom of the Jewish synagogues and the women sat separately (in a gallery) from the men (see the Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah by Alfred Edersheim) that is not the primary purpose of these instructions.

We need to take the entire context (1 Tim 2:9-15) to see that these are timeless instructions to Christian women (which are now being overthrown in many churches and denominations). What this passage is clearly teaching (regardless of culture) is that going back to how Eve was deceived by Satan, women are (a) forbidden to teach and preach in the local assembly, (b) forbidden to usurp authority over men in the church (and in the home), (c) learn in silence with all subjection while in the church meeting, (d) practice good works, (e) dress and adorn themselves modestly and soberly, and (f) work out their salvation as mothers and homemakers with charity, holiness, and sobriety.

[Pamelasv]

This post wouldn't post the was way I did it, so I'm deleting it.  My phone doesn't often agree with this site.

 

Edited October 8, 2015 by Pamelasv

[Pamelasv]

I heard they were separated in the congregation, women on one side and men on the other. They would yell, or loudly whisper or whatever to their husbands across the room and it had something to do with their lack of education. 

Just old wives tales.  Since no contemporary Christian was an eye-witness, no one knows if any of the above allegations are true. Just disregard conjecture. Chances are that there were more orderly meetings then than there are now in some churches,  because the apostles were still alive, and their influence was very powerful. There was some disorder at Corinth which was addressed and put to rest, so far as we know.  But these allegations are just stories concocted to suggest that the Bible is like any other storybook. 

I believe there are still old writings from back then, not just scripture.  

Ezra is right.  There is no evidence of that claim.   It's one of those things I refer to as, "Christian oral tradition."   It is on par with the myth that the high priest went into the holy of holies with a rope around his leg.   No truth to it at all, but preachers pass that thing around like a Christmas fruit cake.

Then please explain how we know women were uneducated back then. Thanks.

[Pamelasv]

 They would yell, or loudly wisper or whatever to their husbands across the room and it had something to do with their lack of education. 

"HEY RALPH, DID YOU REMEMBER TO TAKE THE TRASH OUT BEFORE CHURCH THIS MORNING? AND I TOLD YOU NOT TO WEAR THAT TIE WITH THAT SHIRT!"

 Well...maybe... or not. Ha.

[Guest shiloh357]

I heard they were separated in the congregation, women on one side and men on the other. They would yell, or loudly whisper or whatever to their husbands across the room and it had something to do with their lack of education. 

Just old wives tales.  Since no contemporary Christian was an eye-witness, no one knows if any of the above allegations are true. Just disregard conjecture. Chances are that there were more orderly meetings then than there are now in some churches,  because the apostles were still alive, and their influence was very powerful. There was some disorder at Corinth which was addressed and put to rest, so far as we know.  But these allegations are just stories concocted to suggest that the Bible is like any other storybook. 

I believe there are still old writings from back then, not just scripture.  

Ezra is right.  There is no evidence of that claim.   It's one of those things I refer to as, "Christian oral tradition."   It is on par with the myth that the high priest went into the holy of holies with a rope around his leg.   No truth to it at all, but preachers pass that thing around like a Christmas fruit cake.

Then please explain how we know women were uneducated back then. Thanks.

We know because it was a patriarchal culture.  The men were educated.  It is well known to historians that in the Greek culture, women were rarely seen outside of the home.  It was the men, not the women who went to school, who became the great philosophers.  It was the men who were the scientists, architects, inventors, etc.  Archimedes, Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, etc.  The government was run by men.  There were no women in power in Greece or even in Rome.    You can read up on that yourself.   Women had almost no rights and they were most certainly denied an education.   They were limited to working in the home.

[Ezra]

Women had almost no rights and they were most certainly denied an education.   They were limited to working in the home.

At the same time, don't forget Priscilla, and Lois and Eunice (as well as several mentioned by Paul in his epistles). We do not know to what extent Hebrew women were exposed to the Torah generally, but these women (and presumably others) were well-versed in the Scriptures.  And surprise of surprises, even the Samaritan woman at the well had a good grasp of theology, as did the Syrophenician woman. So perhaps the women in heathen lands were suppressed, but Hebrew women were not.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Women had almost no rights and they were most certainly denied an education.   They were limited to working in the home.

At the same time, don't forget Priscilla, and Lois and Eunice (as well as several mentioned by Paul in his epistles). We do not know to what extent Hebrew women were exposed to the Torah generally, but these women (and presumably others) were well-versed in the Scriptures.  And surprise of surprises, even the Samaritan woman at the well had a good grasp of theology, as did the Syrophenician woman. So perhaps the women in heathen lands were suppressed, but Hebrew women were not.

That's true, but they didn't get it at school, that's my point. It wasn't like it is today.  I didn't say that women didn't know anything about the Bible or anything at all, but they did not have the level of education afforded to their male counterparts.

[missmuffet]

 

Women had almost no rights and they were most certainly denied an education.   They were limited to working in the home.

At the same time, don't forget Priscilla, and Lois and Eunice (as well as several mentioned by Paul in his epistles). We do not know to what extent Hebrew women were exposed to the Torah generally, but these women (and presumably others) were well-versed in the Scriptures.  And surprise of surprises, even the Samaritan woman at the well had a good grasp of theology, as did the Syrophenician woman. So perhaps the women in heathen lands were suppressed, but Hebrew women were not.

That's true, but they didn't get it at school, that's my point. It wasn't like it is today.  I didn't say that women didn't know anything about the Bible or anything at all, but they did not have the level of education afforded to their male counterparts.

I am confused by your statement shiloh.Would you please clarify it for me?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Women had almost no rights and they were most certainly denied an education.   They were limited to working in the home.

At the same time, don't forget Priscilla, and Lois and Eunice (as well as several mentioned by Paul in his epistles). We do not know to what extent Hebrew women were exposed to the Torah generally, but these women (and presumably others) were well-versed in the Scriptures.  And surprise of surprises, even the Samaritan woman at the well had a good grasp of theology, as did the Syrophenician woman. So perhaps the women in heathen lands were suppressed, but Hebrew women were not.

That's true, but they didn't get it at school, that's my point. It wasn't like it is today.  I didn't say that women didn't know anything about the Bible or anything at all, but they did not have the level of education afforded to their male counterparts.

I am confused by your statement shiloh.Would you please clarify it for me?

what I am saying is that women were not educated in schools in ancient cultures like Rome and Greece.  And that culture was not circumvented.  It was most likely the case that Christian women learned the Bible in their homes from their husbands.  

We have a hard time visualizing what life was like back then, but in the Greek culture, women had no standing, no rights.  In many ancient cultures, women were typically not very well educated.  Universities were made for the men, not women.  It is most likely that even church meetings were predominately attended by men.

[missmuffet]

 

Women had almost no rights and they were most certainly denied an education.   They were limited to working in the home.

At the same time, don't forget Priscilla, and Lois and Eunice (as well as several mentioned by Paul in his epistles). We do not know to what extent Hebrew women were exposed to the Torah generally, but these women (and presumably others) were well-versed in the Scriptures.  And surprise of surprises, even the Samaritan woman at the well had a good grasp of theology, as did the Syrophenician woman. So perhaps the women in heathen lands were suppressed, but Hebrew women were not.

That's true, but they didn't get it at school, that's my point. It wasn't like it is today.  I didn't say that women didn't know anything about the Bible or anything at all, but they did not have the level of education afforded to their male counterparts.

I am confused by your statement shiloh.Would you please clarify it for me?

what I am saying is that women were not educated in schools in ancient cultures like Rome and Greece.  And that culture was not circumvented.  It was most likely the case that Christian women learned the Bible in their homes from their husbands.  

We have a hard time visualizing what life was like back then, but in the Greek culture, women had no standing, no rights.  In many ancient cultures, women were typically not very well educated.  Universities were made for the men, not women.  It is most likely that even church meetings were predominately attended by men.

Yes,that was the case back then in history.