Confirming the Covenant

[Last Daze]

When looking at the covenant, it is a 7 year pact.  There is a beginning point and there is an ending point.  And then there is the middle of the 7 years.  For this to happen the 7 years must be continuous.  No breaks in between (no divide and separate), that would negate any middle.   Both Daniel and Revelation says there are two 3 1/2 year or two 1,260 day periods.

When looking at covenants from God, they are all everlasting, they are absolute, they do not need confirming.

This all begins with the 70 Sevens which were decreed.  This is what the prophecy says.  There are 70  full 7 year periods.  And then all six tasks must be complete at/by the end of this 70 this Week.  Who is the prophecy for; Daniel's people, and Daniel's holy city. (Not Christ) (No Buts, Christ has already completed them).  Re-Read the Prophecy again, and who it is for.

Christ has no need to confirm a covenant, and only for 7 years.  So it must be someone else who is confirming this 7 year covenant.  Like, who is going to clean up the carnage of the bodies of those killed when attacking Israel.  If you will clean up this mess, I will let you rebuild your Temple, and pay you a wage to do the clean up.  Part of this 7 year covenant is to re-establish (confirm) sacrifices in the new Temple.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Nowhere does it say that the covenant is a seven year pact.  What Daniel 9:27 says is that the covenant is confirmed for seven years.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.  Daniel 9:27

Also, nowhere does it say that it must be continuous.  It might be, but not necessarily so.  How are Rome and the feet of iron and clay viewed as the fourth kingdom?

Yes, there are mentions of 1260 day periods along with 1290, and 1335.  Nothing says all these time frames must run consecutively.

Obviously, the new covenant needed confirming.  Jesus spent His entire ministry explaining matters of the heart to a people who were slow to perceive.  Why did He spend so much time explaining it if it didn't need confirming?  They were ready to kill Him almost straightaway.  No, it most certainly needed confirming.  It wasn't until after His resurrection that the disciples recalled what Jesus had said about this and about that.  His words were confirmed and the covenant was strengthened.

Please stick with what the Bible says.  If you're going to make assertions, be ready to back them up with scripture, otherwise, mark them as fantasy.

[Guest]

 

How can the man of sin confirm a peace treaty for seven years if he breaks the treaty half-way into it.  That statement is self-contradictory. The covenant is confirmed / strengthened for seven years

.

This is just like the bogus Iran nuclear deal that has been executed in bad faith by Iran.  Iran has absolutely no intention of honoring any agreement which prevents it from becoming a nuclear power and destroying Israel.

That word "confirm" (KJV) is the Hebrew word gabar, which means "to be strong" (thus "to make firm") and by implication "prevail" or "act insolently".  Because the Antichrist already has the upper hand, he insolently makes a bogus seven-year treaty with the full intention of breaking it after 3 1/2 years.  Why is this so difficult to grasp?  Satan never acts in good faith, so there is nothing self-contradictory.  Talk to the ayatollahs.

It's not difficult to grasp what you're saying.  I understand it perfectly.  It's just not scriptural.

Why is it so difficult to grasp the fact that Daniel 9:27 says that the covenant is confirmed for seven years, not 3.5?  How does the man of sin confirm this covenant for the remaining 3.5 years after he breaks it?  And what kind of covenant is it?  I noticed that your reply was again scripture deficient.  If all you have is unsubstantiated claims, well, that's about as profitable as talking to ayatollahs.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.  Daniel 9:27

This doesn't speak of making a covenant.  The covenant was already made.  This speaks of confirming, or strengthening, it for seven years.  Are you saying that Daniel is wrong and that the covenant is only confirmed for 3.5 years? 

No, Scripture is saying that the anti-Christ breaks the covenant (peace treaty), after 3 1/2 years. The treaty is for 7 years, which the anti-Christ guarantees for those 7 years. But after 3 1/2 years, he breaks the treaty. Open your eyes. It is right there for everyone to see.

I'm overwhelmed by the amount of Scripture you posted in support of your speculation.

Why should I post it when you have read it for yourself already. You just choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit into your desired interpretation. There is none so blind as those who will not see. I'll leave you to your delusions.

[missmuffet]

The book of Daniel clearly explains that the anti-Christ confirms a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and breaks that treaty after 3 1/2 years and sets up the abomination that causes desolation in the Temple. Your interpretation contradicts Scripture and is incorrect.

You are correct Rick.

[Montana Marv]

Last Daze

Here is your quote from above to me:

Obviously, the new covenant needed confirming.  Jesus spent His entire ministry explaining matters of the heart to a people who were slow to perceive.  Why did He spend so much time explaining it if it didn't need confirming?  They were ready to kill Him almost straightaway.  No, it most certainly needed confirming.  It wasn't until after His resurrection that the disciples recalled what Jesus had said about this and about that.  His words were confirmed and the covenant was strengthened.

Please stick with what the Bible says.  If you're going to make assertions, be ready to back them up with scripture, otherwise, mark them as fantasy.

What you have unsuccessfully done is making Christs Ministry part of the first 3 1/2 Weeks or 1,260 days.  Daniel says the Anointed One was killed after the 69th Week, Daniel does not mention the 70th Week starting.  So you putting Christs Ministry during the first half of the Week is also a fantasy.

HERE is the Scripture you requested;

If you look at the sequence in Daniel 9:25 to 27.  1.  The Anointed One will be cut off;  2.The people of the ruler to come (Titus in 70 AD) will destroy the city and the sanctuary;  3.  He will confirm a covenant one Seven;  4. In the middle of the Week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering;  5.  Then he will set up the A/D .

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

9:27 And he will have caused to make strong/to prevail/to confirm [a] covenant for many one week [of years].     [“…he will have caused”: 3 masc. sing. Hiphil Perfect.

This was Vespasian’s policy, which he established from the beginning of the war: for those Jews who would continue to submit to Rome’s civil authority, Rome would continue to maintain the peace and permit the Jews to allow only YHWH-worship in the land. But any place in the land that harbored rebellion against Rome, including Jerusalem and Temple, would be desolated.

Flavius Josephus, The Jewish War, Preface 8: “[Vespasian] took…some of its [Galilee’s] cities by treaties, and on terms.”  III:ii:4: “…the inhabitants of Sepphoris…the largest city of Galilee…received Vespasian, the Roman general, very kindly, and readily promised that they would assist him…”  III:ix:8: “Now the seniors of the people [of Tiberius]…fell down before Vespasian, to supplicate his favor… Vespasian…accepted of their rights hands by way of security…[and] the citizens opened to him their gates…”]

The Jewish War lasted 7 years, 66-73 A.D. This prophecy has been fulfilled.

Edited October 30, 2015 by WilliamL

[Bible_Gazer]

never ever seen it yet how the last week could be broken from the 69 weeks and not be connected

The passage is about the Messiah coming and saving the people from their sins.

How was it confirmed that it worked ?  

I have heard it was 3 1/2 years after Jesus resurrection when Stephen was looking up to heaven and saw Jesus beside his Father before they stoned him.

I believe that Stephen made it to heaven that day and it confirmed what Jesus came to do.       70th week came to a close.

 

[Montana Marv]

9:27 And he will have caused to make strong/to prevail/to confirm [a] covenant for many one week [of years].     [“…he will have caused”: 3 masc. sing. Hiphil Perfect.

This was Vespasian’s policy, which he established from the beginning of the war: for those Jews who would continue to submit to Rome’s civil authority, Rome would continue to maintain the peace and permit the Jews to allow only YHWH-worship in the land. But any place in the land that harbored rebellion against Rome, including Jerusalem and Temple, would be desolated.

Flavius Josephus, The Jewish War, Preface 8: “[Vespasian] took…some of its [Galilee’s] cities by treaties, and on terms.”  III:ii:4: “…the inhabitants of Sepphoris…the largest city of Galilee…received Vespasian, the Roman general, very kindly, and readily promised that they would assist him…”  III:ix:8: “Now the seniors of the people [of Tiberius]…fell down before Vespasian, to supplicate his favor… Vespasian…accepted of their rights hands by way of security…[and] the citizens opened to him their gates…”]

The Jewish War lasted 7 years, 66-73 A.D. This prophecy has been fulfilled.

William

So when did Israel and the holy city of Jerusalem fulfill the six tasks given to them in Daniel 9:24.  Seventy sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to do: Tasks 1 to 6.  If Israel has not accomplished these tasks, the 70th Week is not finished, and if not finished, it has not started.  This all completed, 70th Week, around 70 AD is totally false.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Last Daze]

No, Scripture is saying that the anti-Christ breaks the covenant (peace treaty), after 3 1/2 years. The treaty is for 7 years, which the anti-Christ guarantees for those 7 years. But after 3 1/2 years, he breaks the treaty. Open your eyes. It is right there for everyone to see.

I'm overwhelmed by the amount of Scripture you posted in support of your speculation.

Why should I post it when you have read it for yourself already. You just choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit into your desired interpretation. There is none so blind as those who will not see. I'll leave you to your delusions.

I honestly don't have a desired interpretation.  I have an understanding that makes more sense to me but it really doesn't matter one way or the other.  If you had something to support your "broken peace treaty" notion, you would have gladly posted it, but I guess you don't.  I have no interest in your psychological projection of a reply.  Not sure why you think I would.  You should have just said that you've got nothing.  At least that's an answer I can accept.

[Daniel 11:36]

The "confirming" of His covenant with His nation of Israel is to make good on it, and this the Lord will do for a believing remnant part of Israel during the coming 70th week decreed and still pending in which He will reach all of the 6 objectives .... for Israel .... not for today's church

Historical Israel rejected Him and therefore the 70th week has been delayed and is still pending

Israel has returned to the land in unbelief today and there for this experience

All of the prophets' visions go silent after the 69th week and the Lord's cutting off

The divide between fulfilled prophecy and unfulfilled prophecy lies between the ending of the 69th week .... and the beginning of the 70th out in front of us

His covenant with His church is a different matter which began at pentecost and is still ongoing as we speak

This period of grace for the Gentiles of the nations falls in the breach between the 69th and 70th weeks decreed and all of the prophets are silent with regard for events upon the earth during this period 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Daniel 11:36

[Last Daze]

Last Daze

Here is your quote from above to me:

Obviously, the new covenant needed confirming.  Jesus spent His entire ministry explaining matters of the heart to a people who were slow to perceive.  Why did He spend so much time explaining it if it didn't need confirming?  They were ready to kill Him almost straightaway.  No, it most certainly needed confirming.  It wasn't until after His resurrection that the disciples recalled what Jesus had said about this and about that.  His words were confirmed and the covenant was strengthened.

Please stick with what the Bible says.  If you're going to make assertions, be ready to back them up with scripture, otherwise, mark them as fantasy.

What you have unsuccessfully done is making Christs Ministry part of the first 3 1/2 Weeks or 1,260 days.  Daniel says the Anointed One was killed after the 69th Week, Daniel does not mention the 70th Week starting.  So you putting Christs Ministry during the first half of the Week is also a fantasy.

HERE is the Scripture you requested;

If you look at the sequence in Daniel 9:25 to 27.  1.  The Anointed One will be cut off;  2.The people of the ruler to come (Titus in 70 AD) will destroy the city and the sanctuary;  3.  He will confirm a covenant one Seven;  4. In the middle of the Week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering;  5.  Then he will set up the A/D .

In Christ

Montana Marv

Thanks for the reasoned reply Marv.  You are correct that I haven't directly tied Christ's ministry to the first part of the last week; neither has anyone explained how the man of sin spends seven years confirming a covenant that he breaks halfway through.  And I apologize about the "fantasy" bit.  That wasn't necessary.

The main objection that I have to the weeks not being contiguous is that one of the things to be accomplished during the seventy weeks was "to make reconciliation for iniquity".  This happened at the cross which occurred after the 62 week segment.  If Christ's death doesn't fall within the 70th week, then how is that possible?  This is how I tie the ministry of Christ to the first half of the 70th week.