Confirming the Covenant

[Esther4:14]

 

As for 2 Thessalonians 2:4... if you look in verse 3, it seems to be talking about one man. If, according to you, it is fantasy that all Jews will be saved, that must mean you believe that many will be lost. The man of sin is one person, not many; therefore, I do not believe this scripture points to unbelieving Jews as the "antichrist."

2Th 2:3  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4  who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I hope that you will prayerfully consider how your witness is being perceived by all who come in contact with you.

"While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled." (John 17:12).  

Judas represents the son of perdition as being taken out the twelve.  Therefore, suggesting that the future son of perdition would come out of Israel.  

I have prayerfully considered how my witness is being perceived which is why I am here and not trying to publish my own book.  This is a more informal setting where I can mistakes without the same backlash.  I will admit that I am young still.  I am only 33 right now and I anticipate that it will still be another 3-5 years before I will be mature enough to do something more formal.  I honestly realize that when compared to formal writing, I fall very short right now.  The plan is to fine tune what He wants me to say to fulfill the purpose that the Lord has given to me that I have been working towards since the day I accepted salvation.  I enjoy being here, but I would consider maybe only a handful capable of discerning my errors at this point.  However, there is not need to worry.  He will help me find them before I move on to whatever is next.  

Your views on Israel and pretty much everything else Scriptural are simply ill conceived.  And I'm still waiting for Scripture to back up your claims.  Most who can't do that simply move on to another subject.

I clearly did not move on to another subject.  I just refused to talk to you anymore.  Maybe, since you are quoting something that I included further in this conversation where I quoted scripture in response, which also refutes the claim that I moved on because I have nothing to say.  Maybe, you could do me the favor of opening your Bible to provide a response for why the verse that I quoting does not prove the point that I am trying to make.  I find that you rarely quote scripture when you respond, and you often seem to think that you are able to call out false teaching.  So, if you have such superior knowledge, why don't tell me why this is not an accurate conclusion.  From scripture, please.   

[Montana Marv]

Esther

Israel has always been Gods chosen people

Zech 8:6-8 - This is what the Lord Almighty says; 'It may seem marvelous to the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me?'  declares the Lord Almighty.  This is what the Lord Almighty says;  'I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.  I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God.'

Zech 13:1 - On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.

Zeph 3:3 - The remnant of Israel will do no wrong; they will speak no lies, nor will deceit be found in their mouths.  They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid.  v.20 - At that time I will gather you, at that time I will bring you home.  I will give you honor and praise among all the peoples of the earth when I restore your fortunes before your very eyes.

Israel is Gods chosen people.  Gen 17: 6-8 - I will make you very fruitful, I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you.  I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.  The whole land of Canaan, where you now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants ; and I will be their God.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[MorningGlory]

Your views on Israel and pretty much everything else Scriptural are simply ill conceived.  And I'm still waiting for Scripture to back up your claims.  Most who can't do that simply move on to another subject.

I clearly did not move on to another subject.  I just refused to talk to you anymore.  Maybe, since you are quoting something that I included further in this conversation where I quoted scripture in response, which also refutes the claim that I moved on because I have nothing to say.  Maybe, you could do me the favor of opening your Bible to provide a response for why the verse that I quoting does not prove the point that I am trying to make.  I find that you rarely quote scripture when you respond, and you often seem to think that you are able to call out false teaching.  So, if you have such superior knowledge, why don't tell me why this is not an accurate conclusion.  From scripture, please.   

You posted this......"But here is a vers."   "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.  Stand firm then and do not let yourselves AGAIN be burdeneded with a yoke of slavery." (Galatians 5:1)   This verse isn't even remotely RELATED to all the stuff you posted about Israel.

This was supposed to back up your claim that Israel will produce the A/C, are not God's chosen people and are deceiving the U.S. into supporting them.  Also that the whole world worships Israel.    I'm sorry but that one verse doesn't explain or verify ONE thing you said; in fact, every bit of your claim is unbiblical.  It's not my job to post Scripture to back up YOUR posts, Esther.  So do you have supporting Scripture or are you just making up your own End Time scenario?

[Widor1]

 I also understand that the the Old Covenant with Israel has been replaced with the New Covenant with Israel, that the gentile nations are welcome to accept as well.  Therefore, as decedents of Abraham, I would strongly encourage them to accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah, and decedents of Abraham are restored through accepting Christ as their Savior.  The New Covenant is the agreement He was making with a nation that rejected His law that gave them their privilege among the nations. 

You are looping in a couple of covenants here that are not the same. The New Covenant did not replace the Old Covenant. Jesus came to fulfill the law and prophets, not destroy or replace it, as He said:

Mat 5:17  Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18  For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Also, the covenant that God made with Abraham was not and is not conditional upon anything.

Gen 12:1  Now the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.
Gen 12:2  I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
Gen 12:3  I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

All have rejected God, both Jew and Gentile. Jesus came to save anyone who will believe on Him, both Jew and Gentile.

Isa 53:6  All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Therefore, I understand that building Israel as though it were God's will to allow the Jew to reject Him because they are decedents of Abraham is a lie.  It is just not true, and there is no reason to feel sorry for them for this, or think that this is spoken as a offense when Christ is ready save all those who will come to Him; and, they will be held to a higher standard because they were blessed with the law-and a Messiah.

The only reason Israel is a country right now is because of God. There is plenty of evidence in scripture to see this. I know that you are aware that there is a remnant who will turn to Jesus at the end. How do you know who is a remnant? If you knew who would be saved, would you treat them differently than those that are lost? Why would you not feel sorry for anyone who does not know Christ? There will be a day when Israel as a nation will recognize Him, and they will mourn their unbelief.

Zec 12:10  And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

     This "chosen people," thing is false teaching from people who do not want to accept Christ.  They want the church to believe that they don't have to accept Christ because they are "chosen," so they can resurrect the Israel where they served Kings.  This is where the Antichrist will come in. 

However, I still say, YES, they were chosen and that is why He sent His Son to die on the cross, and there is a difference in this teaching of the covenant He made with Abraham that we are being deceived with. 

I am confused. Either Jews being called the "chosen people" is false, or they were chosen by God. Which is it? Here is what God says:

Deu 7:6  For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth.

I think that it is a fantasy to think that all the Jews will be saved when this has never happened throughout scripture.

Jesus said He came for the lost sheep of Israel. Thank God He has not given up on the Jewish people. It is statements like this that turn Jews away from the Gospel of Grace. Please be careful.

 A blaring example is the Pharisees.  But, neither will the Gentiles.  A blaring example is the Cesars of Rome.   Even though both are able to do so, we will continue to grow together as wheat and tares (Matthew 13:24-30), and the greatest offense to Christ is a Jew who will reject Him as Savior because He came to save Israel because of His covenant with Abraham; in other words, he will be the Antichrist spoken of in scripture (2 Thessalonians 2:4).  

Where in the Bible does Jesus say what the greatest offense to Him is? Christ died for all sinners... and I don't remember Him being offended when we (Jews, Gentiles, the world, etc.) rejected Him. Isaiah 53:10 says it pleased the Lord to bruise Him. To sin is to reject Jesus. That is why He came.

Rom 5:6  For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7  For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

As for 2 Thessalonians 2:4... if you look in verse 3, it seems to be talking about one man. If, according to you, it is fantasy that all Jews will be saved, that must mean you believe that many will be lost. The man of sin is one person, not many; therefore, I do not believe this scripture points to unbelieving Jews as the "antichrist."

2Th 2:3  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4  who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I hope that you will prayerfully consider how your witness is being perceived by all who come in contact with you.

They cannot be a chosen people if they reject Christ.  It contradicts everything in the New Testament.  Israel will all be saved because Israel will be defined as all of those who accept Christ.  That is the definition of all of Israel will be saved.  To say otherwise is to contradict the context of the whole Bible and the gift of free will.  It will never happen that all of either Jew or Gentile will be saved just like they were not all saved in the wilderness.  They did not all enter the land because they had the free will to choose idolatry in the wilderness.  Saying that they are the "chosen" people as though they do not have to accept the New Covenant He made with them that requires they accept Christ and that no one will come to the Father but by Him (John 14:6), is a doctrine by people who are from the Zionist agenda who are not Christians.  They are like the Judaizers from the book of Gentiles trying to teach the church that they don't have to accept Christ because they are chosen people.  I am sorry that the truth is difficult for you to accept.  

Sister, no one is saying that Jews who do not accept Christ will be "ok" in the salvation department. The fact that they are God's chosen people does not mean that they earn instant salvation. That is not what "chosen" means. Abraham, a Hebrew, was chosen by God. Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob. From Jacob (also named Israel) came the nation of Israel, and from Israel came Jesus. This was not based on anything that Abraham did. It just so happens that Abraham was a Hebrew, and he was chosen by God. That's it. Because Abraham believed God in faith, God blessed him and made him a great nation. The Jews are the chosen people of God, that is a biblical fact; but that doesn't mean they can have salvation without Jesus.

Rom 3:1  What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision?
Rom 3:2  Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God.
Rom 3:3  For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?
Rom 3:4  Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: "THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS, AND MAY OVERCOME WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED."

The advantage of being a Jew is because to them were "committed the oracles of God." The word oracle is the Greek word logion, which means "an utterance (of God)" according to Strong's Hebrew & Green dictionary. In other words, to the Jews were committed the word of God (Jesus!), the law and the prophets, and God's self revelation in the Old Testament. However, I will paraphrase the question posed in verse 3: Will God still be faithful to them if they do not believe? The answer is no.

Rom 3:9  What then? Are we (Jews) better than they (Gentiles)? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

[Widor1]

 

I think that it is a fantasy to think that all the Jews will be saved when this has never happened throughout scripture.

Jesus said He came for the lost sheep of Israel. Thank God He has not given up on the Jewish people. It is statements like this that turn Jews away from the Gospel of Grace. Please be careful.

 

For one, I specifically and clearly stated this as a foundation for the case that I was making throughout my post.  It is the basis for considering the greatest offense to the cross would be from the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 23:37).  I made this very clear throughout my post.  

For two, I have been through things that are inappropriate to share on a site like this.  Horrible, horrible things, and at the end of the day, these things don't give me a exemption from repentance card.  As a victim of severe injustice, I still have to repent of my sins.  I call someone who cannot repent because of what you are suggesting keeps the Jews from the Gospel of grace, fickle.  

Forgive me if I  misunderstand, but from what I have been reading the case you have been making is that the Jews are not and cannot be God's chosen people because that would mean that they do not need salvation of Christ, correct? What I am suggesting, if you will read my earlier post to you, is that no one can be saved without Jesus, while the Jews are still considered God's chosen people.

Mat 23:37  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

You continue to speak about the greatest offense to the cross and to Jesus, and I am not sure where you are getting this from. Can you please post scripture? I have posted the chapter and verse that you mentioned above. This verse comes at the end of a speech that Jesus is speaking to the multitudes, after the Pharisees and Sadducees had been trying to prove Him wrong and plot against Him in chapter 22. He is telling the multitudes (which includes his disciples and Pharisees, as He was in the temple) to do what the Pharisees say to do, but do not act like them. They like to make a show and be seen as all knowing and important. But God cares about what is inside, and not what is outside. He says in verses 11 and 12 that anyone who is greatest shall be the servant, anyone who exalts himself will be humbled and those who are humble will be exalted. Israel as a nation had become like the Pharisees, wanting to outwardly look righteous but not being so inwardly. Jesus does not say anywhere in this section that He was offended, nor does He say that this is the greatest offense of the cross. This verse 37 IMHO is merely God mourning Israel's heart condition. There is clearly a lot of love in that statement as well as sadness. Offense implies anger, resentment, revenge... things that Jesus is not about. He WILLINGLY laid down His life for all who will believe on Him, WHILE they were still sinners. No one, in their entire life, has ever deserved the grace that He provides, NO ONE. And He still did it anyway. Could He have done that if He was offended?

I don't know what you have been through, nor you me. But I can tell you it took me almost almost 17 years to believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, because people who claimed the title "Christian" did not behave as Christ towards me. I am a Jew. All I can tell you is Jesus is the only cure for any and every hurt, including those who do not recognize that they have wronged you. I will be praying for you.

 

[Esther4:14]

 

 

 

Sister, no one is saying that Jews who do not accept Christ will be "ok" in the salvation department. The fact that they are God's chosen people does not mean that they earn instant salvation. That is not what "chosen" means. Abraham, a Hebrew, was chosen by God. Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob. From Jacob (also named Israel) came the nation of Israel, and from Israel came Jesus. This was not based on anything that Abraham did. It just so happens that Abraham was a Hebrew, and he was chosen by God. That's it. Because Abraham believed God in faith, God blessed him and made him a great nation. The Jews are the chosen people of God, that is a biblical fact; but that doesn't mean they can have salvation without Jesus.

Rom 3:1  What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision?
Rom 3:2  Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God.
Rom 3:3  For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?
Rom 3:4  Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: "THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS, AND MAY OVERCOME WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED."

The advantage of being a Jew is because to them were "committed the oracles of God." The word oracle is the Greek word logion, which means "an utterance (of God)" according to Strong's Hebrew & Green dictionary. In other words, to the Jews were committed the word of God (Jesus!), the law and the prophets, and God's self revelation in the Old Testament. However, I will paraphrase the question posed in verse 3: Will God still be faithful to them if they do not believe? The answer is no.

Rom 3:9  What then? Are we (Jews) better than they (Gentiles)? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

Then, we are essentially saying the same thing Widor.  I don't know how the misunderstanding was created, but just know that I am saying what you are saying as well.  This is a much more objective view.  What I was trying to say is that the subject seems to go overboard to the point where Jew and Gentile are separated again. 

[Esther4:14]

 

I think that it is a fantasy to think that all the Jews will be saved when this has never happened throughout scripture.

Jesus said He came for the lost sheep of Israel. Thank God He has not given up on the Jewish people. It is statements like this that turn Jews away from the Gospel of Grace. Please be careful.

 

For one, I specifically and clearly stated this as a foundation for the case that I was making throughout my post.  It is the basis for considering the greatest offense to the cross would be from the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 23:37).  I made this very clear throughout my post.  

For two, I have been through things that are inappropriate to share on a site like this.  Horrible, horrible things, and at the end of the day, these things don't give me a exemption from repentance card.  As a victim of severe injustice, I still have to repent of my sins.  I call someone who cannot repent because of what you are suggesting keeps the Jews from the Gospel of grace, fickle.  

Forgive me if I  misunderstand, but from what I have been reading the case you have been making is that the Jews are not and cannot be God's chosen people because that would mean that they do not need salvation of Christ, correct? What I am suggesting, if you will read my earlier post to you, is that no one can be saved without Jesus, while the Jews are still considered God's chosen people.

Mat 23:37  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

You continue to speak about the greatest offense to the cross and to Jesus, and I am not sure where you are getting this from. Can you please post scripture? I have posted the chapter and verse that you mentioned above. This verse comes at the end of a speech that Jesus is speaking to the multitudes, after the Pharisees and Sadducees had been trying to prove Him wrong and plot against Him in chapter 22. He is telling the multitudes (which includes his disciples and Pharisees, as He was in the temple) to do what the Pharisees say to do, but do not act like them. They like to make a show and be seen as all knowing and important. But God cares about what is inside, and not what is outside. He says in verses 11 and 12 that anyone who is greatest shall be the servant, anyone who exalts himself will be humbled and those who are humble will be exalted. Israel as a nation had become like the Pharisees, wanting to outwardly look righteous but not being so inwardly. Jesus does not say anywhere in this section that He was offended, nor does He say that this is the greatest offense of the cross. This verse 37 IMHO is merely God mourning Israel's heart condition. There is clearly a lot of love in that statement as well as sadness. Offense implies anger, resentment, revenge... things that Jesus is not about. He WILLINGLY laid down His life for all who will believe on Him, WHILE they were still sinners. No one, in their entire life, has ever deserved the grace that He provides, NO ONE. And He still did it anyway. Could He have done that if He was offended?

I don't know what you have been through, nor you me. But I can tell you it took me almost almost 17 years to believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, because people who claimed the title "Christian" did not behave as Christ towards me. I am a Jew. All I can tell you is Jesus is the only cure for any and every hurt, including those who do not recognize that they have wronged you. I will be praying for you.

 

Hmm, see I wasn't getting that you were making a case that no one could be saved without accepting Christ from the post previously either.  I love your testimony and I was referencing the verse from Matthew to show His sadness over being rejected by His people.  I was using the word offense to reflect the other team.  The Pharisees act with anger, resentment, and revenge and offend Him.  Therefore, the greatest offence will be the son of Perdition who appears to come out of Israel.  ""While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled." (John 17:12).  The son of perdition is the offender, not Christ.  I was quoting the verse to show His sadness over this because He did lay down His life so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish (John 3:16), but this is dependent upon believing in Him and not dependent on genealogy. 

He is grieved as we also should be as Christians because He is our Lord. 

Now, I have been considering whether after this all Israel is saved happens after this and whether the people in Israel who survive all of these things will all accept Christ, but this still does not whitewash the events that are said to take place next according to the prophecy.  I guess what I am saying is that there is more to endure, in a sense, before we can start saying there is victory and expect the restoration of Israel.  I am saying that the order according to the prophecy is that the son of perdition that was represented by Judas is still coming, and so are the 2 witnesses who are said to die in the same place that the Lord was crucified (Revelation 11:8).  To say otherwise is to whitewash the prophecy. 

Therefore, I was thinking about something while I was in the grocery store a little while ago, about how only Caleb and Joshua entered the promised land with all of the generation that was 20 years and younger according to the judgement of the Lord (Numbers 14).  They all inherited the Promised Land, but this was still after the others were disobedient in the wilderness.  However, I am not convinced that is what the verse means either.  But, I am considering it.  And, it is sad to a point, because at any time they are able to accept Christ, and none of this would matter much anymore. 

So, what I am saying is that tribulation is being whitewashed I guess, and we have not reached victory yet according to the prophecy.  Does that make sense?

[FresnoJoe]

Until

Then I will return to my lair
until they have borne their guilt
and seek my face—

in their misery
they will earnestly seek me.” Hosea 5:15 (New International Version)

Until

They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:24 (New International Version)

Until

“There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” Luke 21:25-28 (New International Version)

Then

"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. Zechariah 12:10 (New International Version)

~

Beloved, The Mighty LORD Jesus Is A Zionist

The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the heavens will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel. Joel 3:16 (New International Version)

And Great Is His Faithfulness

Yet this I call to mind
and therefore I have hope:

Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.

They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.

I say to myself, “The Lord is my portion;
therefore I will wait for him.” Lamentations 3:21-24 (New International Version)

~

And My Gentile (Spit, Spit) Inheritance

The LORD said to Aaron, "You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites. Numbers 18:20 (New International Version)

In The Restored Land Of Israel

Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children. Isaiah 66:8 (New International Version)

Is The Same As The Levites

That is why the Levites have no share or inheritance among their fellow Israelites; the LORD is their inheritance, as the LORD your God told them.) Deuteronomy 10:9 (New International Version)

I Am Blessed

[WilliamL]

Jerusalem is never foretold to be destroyed by any End Time prophecy other than this one very disputed prophecy of Daniel 9.

So how can you be so adamant that your interpretation is correct, and teach this like it is a certainty, since you lack even two basic witnesses??

Here are the Scriptures to confirm that Jerusalem will be destroyed during the Great Tribulation:

TRIBULATION: ONE-TENTH OF JERUSALEM DESTROYED (Rev 11:8,13)

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city [JERUSALEM], which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified... And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

GREAT TRIBULATION: ALL OF JERUSALEM DESTROYED (Rev 16:17-21)

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city [JERUSALEM] was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Not only is "the great city" (Jerusalem) divided into three parts, but because of the great unprecedented earthquake as well as the cataclysmic shifting of islands and mountains, all cities are destroyed, including Jerusalem.

There you go again, dodging the original question. You teach that the Coming Prince of Daniel 9:26 "will destroy the city" Jerusalem in the End Times. But you have never provided any other biblical witness to support your teaching. If you can't support it, don't teach it.

Regarding the above two passages, neither one credits the partial destructions only of Jerusalem that are attested to (despite your presumptions) to an antichrist. Not a peep about him. Likewise, nothing in Zechariah 14 indicates that Jerusalem will be totally destroyed by an antichrist or otherwise.

The book of Daniel clearly explains that the anti-Christ confirms a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and breaks that treaty after 3 1/2 years and sets up the abomination that causes desolation in the Temple. Your interpretation contradicts Scripture and is incorrect.

You are correct Rick.

Pleas step up, Rick and bopeep, and help out Ezra, if you can. Or any others of you that teach this doctrine.

[missmuffet]

 

Jerusalem is never foretold to be destroyed by any End Time prophecy other than this one very disputed prophecy of Daniel 9.

So how can you be so adamant that your interpretation is correct, and teach this like it is a certainty, since you lack even two basic witnesses??

Here are the Scriptures to confirm that Jerusalem will be destroyed during the Great Tribulation:

TRIBULATION: ONE-TENTH OF JERUSALEM DESTROYED (Rev 11:8,13)

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city [JERUSALEM], which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified... And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

GREAT TRIBULATION: ALL OF JERUSALEM DESTROYED (Rev 16:17-21)

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city [JERUSALEM] was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Not only is "the great city" (Jerusalem) divided into three parts, but because of the great unprecedented earthquake as well as the cataclysmic shifting of islands and mountains, all cities are destroyed, including Jerusalem.

There you go again, dodging the original question. You teach that the Coming Prince of Daniel 9:26 "will destroy the city" Jerusalem in the End Times. But you have never provided any other biblical witness to support your teaching. If you can't support it, don't teach it.

Regarding the above two passages, neither one credits the partial destructions only of Jerusalem that are attested to (despite your presumptions) to an antichrist. Not a peep about him. Likewise, nothing in Zechariah 14 indicates that Jerusalem will be totally destroyed by an antichrist or otherwise.

The book of Daniel clearly explains that the anti-Christ confirms a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and breaks that treaty after 3 1/2 years and sets up the abomination that causes desolation in the Temple. Your interpretation contradicts Scripture and is incorrect.

You are correct Rick.

Pleas step up, Rick and bopeep, and help out Ezra, if you can. Or any others of you that teach this doctrine.

Rick is a good teacher.I will pass this off to him.