Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[Riverwalker]

It always fascinates me when people try to put God in a box

Question....what bible scripture or rule says that everything God creates has to be brand spanking new?

Adam was created as a full grown man, mature in every way.   he was not made a baby.  If you were to look at him on day one, you might have though he was 25 or 30. because God made him that way

Eve was the same way, God did not create Eve and present her to Adam as a baby....but as a WOMAN  (Whoa Man!)

All of the animals were similarly created fully mature.....

So how big of a stretch is it to believe that God created the earth already old.....4 billion years old, with a history in place (including those pesky fossils), ready to support life, ready in all ways for Act 1 of His grand play?

Science teaches us that young planets cannot support life, that they are too violent , too devoid of life.  God would not plop us a new planet and expect us to live. No He would provide an environment that was run in and ready to support life..... So why would it take 4 billion years for God to do that, when He could just speak a 4 billion year old universe into being.

So in this scenario, Yes the universe is 4 billion years old, all of science would register that.... because that is the way God made it....6000 years ago.

 

Many things are given to us in life as a test....mostly about to determine our pride and humility. To me, this is a perfect test.  God says He made it in 6 days 6000 years ago by speaking it into being.....man says it exploded into existence and developed over 4 billion years.   Who are you going to believe.

This is really only a problem if you can't think outside the box you are trying to put God In.

But God....can do anything....even causing those  who are "professing to be wise, (to) become fools" Romans 1:22

 

[Guest shiloh357]

It always fascinates me when people try to put God in a box

Question....what bible scripture or rule says that everything God creates has to be brand spanking new?

Adam was created as a full grown man, mature in every way.   he was not made a baby.  If you were to look at him on day one, you might have though he was 25 or 30. because God made him that way

Eve was the same way, God did not create Eve and present her to Adam as a baby....but as a WOMAN  (Whoa Man!)

All of the animals were similarly created fully mature.....

So how big of a stretch is it to believe that God created the earth already old.....4 billion years old, with a history in place (including those pesky fossils), ready to support life, ready in all ways for Act 1 of His grand play?

Science teaches us that young planets cannot support life, that they are too violent , too devoid of life.  God would not plop us a new planet and expect us to live. No He would provide an environment that was run in and ready to support life..... So why would it take 4 billion years for God to do that, when He could just speak a 4 billion year old universe into being.

So in this scenario, Yes the universe is 4 billion years old, all of science would register that.... because that is the way God made it....6000 years ago.

 

Many things are given to us in life as a test....mostly about to determine our pride and humility. To me, this is a perfect test.  God says He made it in 6 days 6000 years ago by speaking it into being.....man says it exploded into existence and developed over 4 billion years.   Who are you going to believe.

This is really only a problem if you can't think outside the box you are trying to put God In.

But God....can do anything....even causing those  who are "professing to be wise, (to) become fools" Romans 1:22

 

Well everything was created "brand spanking new."   But everything was created functionally mature.    God did not make the earth 4 billion years old, 6,000 years ago. That doesn't make sense.  There is no reconciliation between science (which needs an old earth to make Evolution plausible) and the Bible which says that God created the earth in six, 24 hour days.  Believe one or the other.  We cannot have both.

[Riverwalker]

Well everything was created "brand spanking new."   But everything was created functionally mature.    God did not make the earth 4 billion years old, 6,000 years ago. That doesn't make sense.  There is no reconciliation between science (which needs an old earth to make Evolution plausible) and the Bible which says that God created the earth in six, 24 hour days.  Believe one or the other.  We cannot have both.

And why is that....where is the scripture telling us that?  Its one thing to make such a blanket statement....but where is the support?

"It doesn't make sense" -   again....you have to think outside the box you are trying to put God in. Christians cannot afford to put God in a box that scripture does not delineate. I realize this is a unconventional idea...but this is God we are talking about. Yes Scripture Says 6 days, Yes Scriptures says 6000 years and I embrace that.  NO WHERE does it say that the earth had to be made brand new.

This scripture seems to tell me that man has indeed tried to take what God has made and reduced it to nature.

Romans 1

¹⁸ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, ¹⁹ because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. ²⁰ For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, ²¹ because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. ²² Professing to be wise, they became fools, ²³ and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

 

this scenario can trip up the prideful unbeliever....given a path to believe outside of God, no matter how ridiculous

 

 

Edited November 2, 2015 by Riverwalker

[Guest shiloh357]

Well everything was created "brand spanking new."   But everything was created functionally mature.    God did not make the earth 4 billion years old, 6,000 years ago. That doesn't make sense.  There is no reconciliation between science (which needs an old earth to make Evolution plausible) and the Bible which says that God created the earth in six, 24 hour days.  Believe one or the other.  We cannot have both.

And why is that....where is the scripture telling us that?  Its one thing to make such a blanket statement....but where is the support?

 

Ever heard of a self-evident truth?   Genesis 1 is a brand new creation of an earth that had never existed before.  The clear reading of Genesis 1 and 2 tells us that everything was created functionally mature and able to reproduce.  God didn't create anything "old."  New, but functionally perfect and mature in every way.   That is so evident even from a cursory reading of Genesis 1 and 2 that I am baffled as to why you are asking for Scripture to support what is clearly depicted in the text.

"It doesn't make sense" -   again....you have to think outside the box you are trying to put God in. Christians cannot afford to put God in a box that scripture does not delineate. I realize this is a unconventional idea...but this is God we are talking about.

What you are presenting isn't unconventional or "out of the box."   It is irrational.  While God transcends our concepts of logic, God is not irrational. I am not putting God in a box.  I am simply representing what is clearly laid out for us in the text of Genesis.

 This scripture seems to tell me that man has indeed tried to take what God has made and reduced it to nature.

That text is about man's moral rebellion against God.  They didn't reduce anything down to nature.  They exalted nature over the God they knew.

[archaeologist55]

Science teaches us that young planets cannot support life, that they are too violent , too devoid of life

yet people forget that the scriptures about false teaching apply to the field of science as well as theology.  what science teaches has to be placed through this filter to see if any truth comes out

We do not know what adam or eve looked like when they were first created, nor do we know their actual age they were at when they were made. so everything is pure speculation. what we do know is that God made them ready for what he had in mind for them when he set about making them.

too many people get hung up on useless details or questions that cannot be determined or answered and ignore the real lessons of creation

[Riverwalker]

Well everything was created "brand spanking new."   But everything was created functionally mature.    God did not make the earth 4 billion years old, 6,000 years ago. That doesn't make sense.  There is no reconciliation between science (which needs an old earth to make Evolution plausible) and the Bible which says that God created the earth in six, 24 hour days.  Believe one or the other.  We cannot have both.

And why is that....where is the scripture telling us that?  Its one thing to make such a blanket statement....but where is the support?

 

Ever heard of a self-evident truth?   Genesis 1 is a brand new creation of an earth that had never existed before.  The clear reading of Genesis 1 and 2 tells us that everything was created functionally mature and able to reproduce.  God didn't create anything "old."  New, but functionally perfect and mature in every way.   That is so evident even from a cursory reading of Genesis 1 and 2 that I am baffled as to why you are asking for Scripture to support what is clearly depicted in the text.

"It doesn't make sense" -   again....you have to think outside the box you are trying to put God in. Christians cannot afford to put God in a box that scripture does not delineate. I realize this is a unconventional idea...but this is God we are talking about.

What you are presenting isn't unconventional or "out of the box."   It is irrational.  While God transcends our concepts of logic, God is not irrational. I am not putting God in a box.  I am simply representing what is clearly laid out for us in the text of Genesis.

 This scripture seems to tell me that man has indeed tried to take what God has made and reduced it to nature.

That text is about man's moral rebellion against God.  They didn't reduce anything down to nature.  They exalted nature over the God they knew.

Again you categorically state that God did not make the world already old.   and yet you offer no proof

 

Is not evolution the grandest form of man's rebellion against God....to define creation without a creator?

You are making assumptions, which is fine as long as you classify them as assumptions. My original statement was an assumption.....a possibility

 

where bible states fact..we state fact, where bible does not..we do not.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2015 by Riverwalker

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Again you categorically state that God did not make the world already old.   and yet you offer no proof

 

The proof I offered is Genesis 1 and 2.   The text clearly describes a new earth, made functionally mature.   It doesn't say that God made the earth old.  This is a new creation of a planet that did not exist.  

For God to make something old, it would have the signs of age.  For example: an older person's body has signs of wear, cracked teeth, bones that have been broken, but healed.  The body will have scars from injuries, graying hair, arthritis, clogged arteries, hearing loss, etc.    God didn't make Adam and Eve, old.   He made them mature.  There is a difference.

 You are making assumptions, which is fine as long as you classify them as assumptions.

No, I am not making assumptions.  I am working off of the text of Scripture and what is readily evident and so far you have not refuted one thing I have said.  All you have done up to this point is complain and accuse me of not providing proof and of making assumptions.  None of that is an actually refutation of what I said.

where bible states fact..we state fact, where bible does not..we do not.

I am stating what the Bible demonstrates as fact.  I am stating facts, you may not want to accept, but I am stating facts, whether you make room for them or not. 

[Ezra]

So in this scenario, Yes the universe is 4 billion years old, all of science would register that.... because that is the way God made it....6000 years ago.

The "appearance of age" is certainly a possibility, if the measurements are in fact correct for the billion-year scenario. We know for a fact that everything which was created was fully and functionally mature, and the proof is in the naming of the animals by Adam.  It would appear that God caused them to gather around or walk past Adam, and God gave him the wisdom to name them appropriately (probably in Hebrew).

At the same time God embedded a literal six-day period of creation within the Ten Commandments so that there would be no question that those were literal 24-hour days. He also embedded the formula "evening and morning" in Genesis to confirm that He really meant regular diurnal days.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

 

So in this scenario, Yes the universe is 4 billion years old, all of science would register that.... because that is the way God made it....6000 years ago.

The "appearance of age" is certainly a possibility, if the measurements are in fact correct for the billion-year scenario. We know for a fact that everything which was created was fully and functionally mature, and the proof is in the naming of the animals by Adam.  It would appear that God caused them to gather around or walk past Adam, and God gave him the wisdom to name them appropriately (probably in Hebrew).

At the same time God embedded a literal six-day period of creation within the Ten Commandments so that there would be no question that those were literal 24-hour days. He also embedded the formula "evening and morning" in Genesis to confirm that He really meant regular diurnal days.

God did not create Adam with the appearance of age.  "Appearance of Age" is not biblical.  God created man in His likeness (or image).  I believe the Bible should be taken literally, not figuratively to fit a YEC view of science.  YEC are afraid to take the Bible literally.

To make the so-called "Theory of Evolution" work, you have to have an infinite universe that had no beginning.  Science has proven this false, so evolution evangelists (and it is a religion to them) have reworked their theory for the umteenth time to make the ages work out, except they still don't.  Quantum Physics works out, Evolution Theory and YEC science do not.  It's good to be skeptical of scientists, because they are not always honest with us.

Now pretend I'm not here, and go on with your argument with Riverwalker. 

[Ezra]

God did not create Adam with the appearance of age.  "Appearance of Age" is not biblical.  God created man in His likeness (or image).

Who said anything about Adam having "the appearance of age"? That was in reference to the earth. Adam was created as a fully grown man, and every creature was created as fully developed. Please read my post again.