Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[Kan]

14 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

The Bible does speak of two floods, not one.  Hazard has provided detailed scripture references to these two floods.  I suggest you provide an adequate response to those scriptures and then we can continue from there.  Other One has also provided invaluable information that I shall not repeat here.  Since this subject is now spanning three threads, I prefer not to repeat information that is easily found.  This discussion is for Christians whose faith is strong, and not for new believers.  I've been studying this subject since I became a Christian, 33+ years ago.

Thanks for the reference to Hazard. I might have missed something, so I double checked his posts and found that he has different interpretations of his main sources of text - Genesis 1, Jeremiah 4, and II Peter 3. Jeremiah is talking about the prophetic aftermath of the Babylonian captivity of the Jews, and Peter is talking about Noah's flood. From what I can gather, none of his texts carry any proof of the pre creation Satanic flood theory, and I include the many other texts provided as well.

I just wonder what the point would be of this double flood theory, and I'm disappointed that it may boil down to another attack on the literal creation story, which has been undermined for quite some time, since about the end of the 18th century. All the extensions of time, are begging for us to accept evolution and OE theories...which I think are aimed at eventually causing a denial of the Creator and His truth altogether. And I can say that from observing those who began to accept small compromises in Christian doctrines, who were found walking up a dead end street, called atheism.

 

[Kan]

13 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Gaines R. Johnson's The Bible Genesis and Geology website is a good resource.  I've read Mr. Johnson's book on a recommendation from Dr. Steven Dill, author of In The Beginnings which I've also read and recommend.  As I've said, I've been studying this issue for some time.  I am willing and open to change my beliefs if they can be proven wrong, as I was about my previous Calvinists beliefs.  Further information can be found at The Gap Theory. 

I have read the underlined articles, and as I suspected, they are following the idea of evolution. 

Evolution is false, there is no science to it. Why would someone bother to twist the scriptures to suit that?

The article on the Gap theory, quotes a verse from Job, when the angels sang for joy that the earth was created. Why they don't see how that cuts their own theory to the ground is beyond me.

If the angels rejoiced to see creation, they certainly were not living on earth before God made it, and then the earth was made for man, not the angels.

So the theory that Satan reigned on the earth prior to creation, and that there was a flood, does not hold water.

[siegi91]

On 25 December 2015 at 5:24 AM, JohnD said:

So c. is NOT the speed limit after all, otherwise what you said would be impossible. 

 

It depends. C is the speed limit in space. The fact that space expands between objects does not contradict the statement. It is like a car travelling from Boston to New York on a highway that gets longer as time passes. The speed of the car relatve to the highway does not increase. It is always the same.  And if you measure the distance between Boston and New York by multiplying the car speed and the time it took, you would be wrong, for Boston has moved farther away from NY in the meantime.

This entails that if we see an object 1,000,000 light years away, then light took, at least, 1,000,000 years to reach us. And when that light reached us, the object already moved to a much farther place than the place it was when it started emittng that light.

And that is why the Universe is much bigger than what it appears to us. We just see where galaxies were a few billions years ago. Not where they are now. And we cannot see where they are now exactly because the speed of light cannot be overcome.

 siegi

 

 

[post]

11 minutes ago, siegi91 said:

. . . the speed of light cannot be overcome.

. . . unless you happen to be, say, a tachyon . . .

[siegi91]

7 minutes ago, post said:

. . . unless you happen to be, say, a tachyon . . .

 

Of course. If they existed

[SavedOnebyGrace]

6 hours ago, Kan said:

Thanks for the reference to Hazard. I might have missed something, so I double checked his posts and found that he has different interpretations of his main sources of text - Genesis 1, Jeremiah 4, and II Peter 3. Jeremiah is talking about the prophetic aftermath of the Babylonian captivity of the Jews, and Peter is talking about Noah's flood. From what I can gather, none of his texts carry any proof of the pre creation Satanic flood theory, and I include the many other texts provided as well.

I just wonder what the point would be of this double flood theory, and I'm disappointed that it may boil down to another attack on the literal creation story, which has been undermined for quite some time, since about the end of the 18th century. All the extensions of time, are begging for us to accept evolution and OE theories...which I think are aimed at eventually causing a denial of the Creator and His truth altogether. And I can say that from observing those who began to accept small compromises in Christian doctrines, who were found walking up a dead end street, called atheism.

You've picked three scriptures out of the dozens that Hazard listed to nitpick.  It is you who cannot read and understand the literal scriptures that Hazard, Other One, and others have posted.  You twist them to fit your preconceived narrative that some denomination minister preached some long time ago.  It is pointless carrying on this dialog.  YEC are driving people to atheism, not OEC.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

6 hours ago, Kan said:

I have read the underlined articles, and as I suspected, they are following the idea of evolution. 

Evolution is false, there is no science to it. Why would someone bother to twist the scriptures to suit that?

The article on the Gap theory, quotes a verse from Job, when the angels sang for joy that the earth was created. Why they don't see how that cuts their own theory to the ground is beyond me.

If the angels rejoiced to see creation, they certainly were not living on earth before God made it, and then the earth was made for man, not the angels.

So the theory that Satan reigned on the earth prior to creation, and that there was a flood, does not hold water.

Your lack of discernment astounds me.  There's nothing here to support evolution.  I don't know why you keep bringing that up.  It's blinded you to the truth in front of your eyes in Holy Scripture.  If we can't agree to disagree, I can just ignore you in the future.  Are young earth creationists members of a cult?

[JohnD]

In fact the speed of light is slowing down:

Date	Experimenter	Method	Speed (m/s)	Uncertainty (± m/s)
1862	Foucault	Rotating mirror	298,000,000	500,000
1876	Cornu	Toothed wheel	299,990,000	200,000
1880	Michelson	Rotating mirror	299,910,000	50,000
1883	Newcomb	Rotating mirror	299,860,000	30,000
1883	Michelson	Rotating mirror	299,853,000	60,000
1926	Michelson	Rotating mirror	299,796,000	4000
1928	Karolus and Mittelstaedt	Kerr Cell	299,778,000	10,000
1932	Michelson and others	Rotating mirror	299,774,000	11,000
1941	Anderson	Kerr Cell	299,776,000	14,000
1950	Bergstrand	Geodimeter	299,792,700	250
1950	Essen	Microwave cavity	299,792,500	3000
1951	Aslakson	Shoran radar	299,794,200	1900
1952	Froome	Microwave interferometer	299,792,600	700
1954	Florman	Microwave interferometer	299,795,100	1900
1957	Bergstrand	Geodimeter	299,792,850	160
1958	Froome	Microwave interferometer	299,792,500	100
1965	Kolibayev	Geodimeter	299,792,600	60
1967	Grosse	Geodimeter	299,792,500	50
1972	Evenson and others	Laser	299,792,457.4	1.1
1974	Blaney and others	Laser	299,792,459.0	0.6
1976	Woods and others	Laser	299,792,458.8	0.2
1977	Monchalin and others	Laser	299,792,457.6	.73

[JohnD]

[JohnD]

Back dating this constant decay Setterfield and Norman wrote a paper indicating that c. was as much as 10 million times faster 7 thousand years ago.

Take the most distant star and divide its present light years distance by 10 million.