The Sovereignty of God

[Ezra]

If Jesus knew only what the Father told him, that would mean he knew less than what the Father knew. How then could he be FULLY God? The less Jesus knew, the wider that disparity. I'm curious: What other divine attribute do you think Jesus lacked when he was on earth?

You keep on harping on the same thing  -- which is that there was just ONE THING that Scripture tells us was not known, or given, or revealed, or hidden temporarily -- the exact time of His return. That was TEMPORARY, as His humiliation was temporary. Do you think Christ -- at this very moment -- does not know the date and the hour of His coming, either for the saints, or with the saints? Jesus is FULLY GOD regardless of this one item, and if you don't believe that you have a very serious problem.  And if you really believe you can "investigate" the Mystery of God and arrive at a specific conclusion, then you are simply deluding yourself.  There's no other way to put it.

[gdemoss]

 

God either knew they would sin or he did not.  God either had the power to prevent them or he did not.

Foreknowledge of sinful deeds does not mean that God will prevent them, and the reason for that is He has chosen to give men and angels free will. God knew before He created Lucifer and Adam that both would sin. However He ALLOWED sin to enter into this world for His own perfect reasons, one of them being so that men could be redeemed and perfected in Christ, and God's grace would be praised for all eternity.

Sovereignty does not mean micromanaging sinners and their sins. God will NEVER cause a man to sin, but He will allow it, and He also lays down the consequences (physical and eternal death).  That is precisely what He told Adam: "...in the day that thou eatest thereof THOU SHALT SURELY DIE" (Gen 2:17).  Therefore the Gospel says "THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH..." (Rom 6:23).

I agree with this.  Sovereignty is about ability but not absolute control.  It is about being able.  Nothing can happen without God allowing it.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

If Jesus knew only what the Father told him, that would mean he knew less than what the Father knew. How then could he be FULLY God? The less Jesus knew, the wider that disparity. I'm curious: What other divine attribute do you think Jesus lacked when he was on earth?  

In His humanity, Jesus temporarily and voluntarily knew less than what the Father knew.   Jesus even said that He did and said only what the Father told him to do and say.   Jesus lived in complete reliance on the Father.    Jesus was tempted in His humanity by Satan.   Jesus prayed to the Father in His humanity.

I never said that Jesus lacked any divine attribute.  I said that he temporarily set aside certain divine prerogatives which is what Paul said in Philippians 2: 5-6.   Jesus  was still God and equal with God, but did not see His equality with the Father as something to exploit to his own advantage.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

If Jesus knew only what the Father told him, that would mean he knew less than what the Father knew. How then could he be FULLY God? The less Jesus knew, the wider that disparity. I'm curious: What other divine attribute do you think Jesus lacked when he was on earth?  

In His humanity, Jesus temporarily and voluntarily knew less than what the Father knew.   Jesus even said that He did and said only what the Father told him to do and say.   Jesus lived in complete reliance on the Father.    Jesus was tempted in His humanity by Satan.   Jesus prayed to the Father in His humanity.

I never said that Jesus lacked any divine attribute.  I said that he temporarily set aside certain divine prerogatives which is what Paul said in Philippians 2: 5-6.   Jesus  was still God and equal with God, but did not see His equality with the Father as something to exploit to his own advantage.

the word used for equal in Philippians 2:5-6 is isa and its Gender is Neuter and the word God in the same verse has its Gender: Masculine. In order for the word equal  to be applied fully and wholly to the word God itself, it must be of the same gender: Masculine and the greek word should be isos but its not.

 

 

You are not a Christian and you don't know beans about Greek.  I will not accept any instruction from someone like you.   As a nonChristian, you don't have a place at the table in this discussion.  You don't belong.

[Deborah_]

 

your deflecting, how is something neuter fully and wholly equal to something masculine?

It isn't. In that sentence, the word 'equal' does not agree with the word 'God', either in gender or in grammatical case. The word 'equal' is actually being used not as an adjective but as a noun (you can do this in Greek). It is also plural, and literally means 'equal things' - a Greek way of saying 'equalness' or 'equality' . 

[ghtan]

If Jesus knew only what the Father told him, that would mean he knew less than what the Father knew. How then could he be FULLY God? The less Jesus knew, the wider that disparity. I'm curious: What other divine attribute do you think Jesus lacked when he was on earth?  

In His humanity, Jesus temporarily and voluntarily knew less than what the Father knew.   Jesus even said that He did and said only what the Father told him to do and say.   Jesus lived in complete reliance on the Father.    Jesus was tempted in His humanity by Satan.   Jesus prayed to the Father in His humanity.

I never said that Jesus lacked any divine attribute.  I said that he temporarily set aside certain divine prerogatives which is what Paul said in Philippians 2: 5-6.   Jesus  was still God and equal with God, but did not see His equality with the Father as something to exploit to his own advantage.

Jesus doing and saying only what God told him to do and say was meant to show that his message was God's message. It was not meant to imply he knew less than God knew. Conversely, Jesus did say, "All that the Father has is mine" (John 16:15) and the context there is about truth and the future (16:13). It implies Jesus knew everything God knew. I think that is more consistent with Jesus being still fully God when he was on earth.