The Time of Testing

[Omegaman 3.0]

6 hours ago, Sister said:

Why do we all just assume that the whole Christian world will be saved?

All who belong to Christ, will be saved. I have no idea who the "whole Christian world" is. God knows who receives mercy, and who receives justice instead.

[Sister]

9 hours ago, RustyAngeL said:

In all of this, what do you mean by the "whole Christian Church"?  Do you mean the body of Christ, believers people who have asked Jesus to be the Lord and Savior of their lives, or the ones who happen to be born into a family who went to church?

RustyAngel

Was that question directed to me? 

There are people who consider themselves Christian and claim to be in the body of Christ, but this body was not put together by man, but by Christ.  Only he truly knows who belongs to that body, and who will be thrust out, but all of us will be given a chance to prove where our loyalty lies.

The ones who are born into a family who go to church in my opinion are also in danger.  Why? because they are comfy in their little nests, and often fall asleep.  My children for example, I have taught them and they know what's going to happen, and what to do when the time comes, but they have never searched the scriptures for themselves to check out what I say is true.  This bothers me.  I want them to read for themselves and ask lots of questions, be inquisitive, and go on this quest for truth and find God through their own eyes and not mine.

We should not build our faith on another mans foundation.

 

[Sister]

3 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

All who belong to Christ, will be saved. I have no idea who the "whole Christian world" is. God knows who receives mercy, and who receives justice instead.

Omegaman

Thats right.  I mean all those claiming to be Christian.  Many genuinly believe they are because they pray, or go to church, or were baptised and believe that Christ is the savior, but Christ said;

John 6:53   Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54   Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55   For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56   He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

We must learn what this means for only the holy spirit can reveal it.

[Last Daze]

11 hours ago, Ezra said:

Once we are clear that a specific period of tribulation and wrath is assigned to the unbelieving and the ungodly (Revelation chapters 6-18) it is not difficult to see that the Tribulation (wrath), the Great Tribulation (intense wrath), plus the wrath of Satan, are all confined to the same period of judgements.

And there you have it.  The main pillar of error supporting the pre-trib fallacy in one sentence.  Tribulation, wrath, and judgment are NOT synonyms and you would do well to discern the difference instead of poisoning the well.  While you're at it, figure out the source and object of those three in their context.  Ask yourself, "who is causing the tribulation, and who is experiencing it?", "whose wrath is this and who is it directed toward?", "what judgment has been made and who is affected?".  It makes a huge difference.

Words have meanings and context is important, Ezra.  Your confusion of terminology serves no useful purpose, quite the contrary. 

[WilliamL]

And I'll second that.

35 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Tribulation, wrath, and judgment are NOT synonyms and you would do well to discern the difference instead of poisoning the well. 

However, discerning the difference requires abandoning Pre-trib, and there's the rub. Too many people have too much invested in this doctrine, and going through the divorce is just too painful for them to consider.

[SINNERSAVED]

5 hours ago, n2thelight said:

ifThose who have died are already with Christ in heaven,that's how He brings them back with Him when He comes...

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.

"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.

Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.

Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.

To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".

Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.

Why?

Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.

 

The testing happens when satan arrives......

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

look at v 11 those above were not raptured

Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Revelation 12:13 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."

 

I think if you took that view that the dead are already raised , then what about the people in the lord that die now , do they not wait, unto the lord until the return as it states in scripture that he will call and the dead in Christ will rise first and then we that are alive, this seems to be at the same timing, not the dead already with God and then we are not waiting for the coming of Jesus , when he commands to have this done by the four angels,

I would believe that it is possible ? when Jesus rose and the graves were open it would have been the first fruits , but not people now that die, but then again ?that's possible for who can really say for sure,? we have  a few ways to look at this , but I am not convinced yet, now if I said soul sleep ,which you are telling me I said , then it is also possible ? , as he is preparing a place, it is possible , but you cannot tell me that by a fact this is not possible ,

its a matter of careful study , and keeping scripture to interpret scripture, if this is not being done ,then we know it is not  a case,

we also need to come to the understanding of what scripture tells us truth and answers, with out assumptions, and I know you wlll agree with me,

so  n2thelight, I appreciate your response ,and . I would like to work this through, to make sure you and me are seeing the same thing or understand each others view, thank you ,

I am trying to picture how this can be explained to you and me that Gods word is showing us. let us be open minded in receiving spiritual teaching from God, as we work this out,

[SINNERSAVED]

12 hours ago, Sister said:

Why do we all just assume that the whole Christian world will be saved?

Did not Jesus warn that wolves shall come in to deceive the flock after his departure?  If the flock are deceived then are they walking in the truth?  And if one is not walking in the truth because he did not read the Word of God for himself searching the scriptures, but trusted in man with his soul, then who is at fault?

I've just met a beautiful lovely 85 yr old lady who has been a christian for 35 years.  She was giving me prophecy with the wrong interpretation and when I corrected her she said, "you know what?, I've been so busy in the church doing this and that, and spent all my time and money building orphanages overseas that I never had the time to really read the bible"  She could of argued with me, but I thought her answer was very honest and humble.  She is still waiting for her rapture before all these terrible events unfold, but I hope to lead her in the right direction.  At the same time, she is hoping to die before the tribulation starts, just in case her doctrine is in error.  If she does learn the truth that this secret rapture does not happen before the tribulation and makes herself prepared in her heart to suffer all things for Christ's sake with all willingness, and then dies before it all happens, then in my opinion, she has done what Abraham was prepared to do with his Son Isaac because of faith.  We cannot fool God, he knows the heart and how far we are prepared to go, even if we don't quite get there.

Adding to what I said earlier, were we not warned that there were tares amongst the wheat, and both should grow together until the harvest?  Well to separate them (the last generation) there has to be a great test of some sort.  A great temptation of such.  Talk is cheap, and anyone can claim they are saved, so the whole Christian land will be put through a sieve. The sheep will be separated from the goats through that choice they will make.  This is when we can really tell who belongs to the Kingdom and who doesn't because brother will go against brother and love will wax cold. Pick your side. Some will change their tune at the final hour.  Some for the better, and many for the worse.

And being prepared and ready is always a good advantage.

 

 

 

that was a great story you shared, and this is really a common and basic truth, that many that are working hard and trying to do the will of the father and think they are really working hard to do what God wants them to do , but yet, forsaking the reading of the word,

if we do not read the word and continue in Gods scriptures then we are lost,

it is only when we read scripture and the word of God can we see through the evil one ,and the false teachings,

for all churches and nice people and considerate wolves in sheeps clothing , visually do not pose a threat to us , and we invite them in to our lives , not discerning the spirits , and being watchful , for many are deceived, already , the trap is already set, and satan has gained more ground

but I believe if that person , God is reaching out to get, ,comes across your path, we are responsible ,and it is our duty to share the word , and to correct the wrong of the evil one, for we are the hands and the feet of the Gospel, how else will they hear the word to come to salvation, and how else would they know about the true living , and almighty loving God, if we are not telling them?

so many are caught going to church , and going through the rituals of men , and never really knowing God, for they do not read there bibles,

I would say that almost every family in the u.s has a bible of some sort in there home, so it is ,the most powerful , life changing book and the most popular, ever, everyone knows what a bible is,   but it is the one book ,that will not be used ,and left to collect dust, and not be read, ,this is a shame,

we have the power of the word of God,  but we don't use it, most will just follow and hear the word ,but not seek the divine and the love of God, for they are blinded by the material and evil world we live in, and they do not see the destruction and snare of the devil of what is too come,

for if we all knew a house with a family in it was about to catch fire because we smelled the gas, and walked away, instead of getting them to safety , then we are at fault and we have let those souls die,

it is the same with the truth of God, if we are not reaching out , knowing they go to hell , we are not then really believing in God ,why are we not reaching out, we know what the end game is?

but we say we are Christians , and many I have come across is ashame ,as I once was, to share or talk about the gospel they say they believe in ?

and if we be ashame of the gospel truth , then there is no truth in us, but we live a lie to ourselves, and we are unable to reach others,

for what we say we believe in.

[Last Daze]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

And I'll second that.

However, discerning the difference requires abandoning Pre-trib, and there's the rub. Too many people have too much invested in this doctrine, and going through the divorce is just too painful for them to consider.

Exactly right.  Too many are emotionally attached to their eschatological castle to consider renovation, even when the architect suggests it.  And some times you just have to burn it to the ground and start over.  I did, and I'm glad I did.  I guess it all comes down to motive.

[Ezra]

14 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

 I guess it all comes down to motive.

The motive is to rightly divide the Word of Truth.  Not promote some fanciful ideas. Wrath is for the unbelieving and the ungodly.

[WilliamL]

17 minutes ago, Ezra said:

The motive is to rightly divide the Word of Truth.  Not promote some fanciful ideas. Wrath is for the unbelieving and the ungodly.

I agree with all three statements, however with this addition to the last sentence: "and the ill-prepared believer/foolish virgin."