"...and every eye shall see him..."

[Retrobyter]

20 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

The first resurrection and the second coming are the same event says the Bible Rev. 20

 

20 hours ago, Ezra said:

They are not the same event, so please dig a little deeper.

Shalom, ENOCH2010 and Ezra.

"First" is such a relative concept. It all depends on the context. In this case, the FIRST resurrection (with a new body) to ever occur (Yeshua`s resurrection) was considered in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 as the "firstfruits" and the "first resurrection" of John's book of Revelation, chapter 20, a "general resurrection"; that is, a "resurrection of all the saints at once" was considered to be "they that are Christ's at His coming" in 1 Corinthians 15.

The problem, once again, is interpreting common words as LABELS or portions of LABELS! The "first resurrection" is NOT THE SAME THING as the "First Resurrection!" We must remain careful and be diligent against the tendancy we ALL have to assign certain words the status of a LABEL!

There are different KINDS of resurrections in the Scriptures: The resurrections that Eliyahu (Elijah) and Elishah (Elisha) performed were not of the same caliber as Yeshua`s resurrection. To use Paul's "Resurrection Chapter" again (see how easy it is to form a label?), there are two different kinds of human bodies: in Greek, these are listed as "sooma psuchikos" and "sooma pneumatikos." The "sooma psuchikos," translated as a "natural body" in the KJV, is the kind of body that God made into the first man made out of "dust" or "earth," the "ground" or "dirt":

Breeshiyt (Genesis) 2:7
7 Vayiytser YHVH Elohiym et haa'aadaam `aafaar min haa'adaamaah vayipach b'apaayv nishmat chayiym vayhiy haa'aadaam l-nefesh chayaah:
JPS Hebrew-English TANAKH

Pros Korinthious A (1 Corinthians) 15:45
45 Houtoos kai gegraptai, "Egeneto" ho prootos anthroopos "Adam eis psucheen zoosan," ho eschatos Adam eis pneuma zoo-opoioun.
UBS Greek New Testament

These say that the first man (Hebrew: haa'aadaam = "the man"; "Adam"; Greek: ho prootos anthroopos = "the first man") was made...

"into a-breathing-being living."

1 Cor. 15:45 goes on to say that the last man (Greek: ho eschatos anthroopos = "the last man") [was made]...

"into a-wind/forceful-breath life-giving!"

The "-ikos" ending in Greek forms an adjective form of the noun. We have translated "pneumatikos" as "spiritual," since "pneuma" is translated "spirit." In all fairness, we should have likewise translated "psuchikos" as "soul-ual," to be consistent, since "psuchee" is translated "soul." Instead, we used the word "natural." The use of this word in translation has forced people who understand that this is a comparison between the two terms to say that "spiritual" ("pneumatikos") means "UNnatural." That's NOT a good conclusion! It would be better to say that "spiritual" means "SUPERnatural." But, these two terms are NOT describing "realms" or "events"; they are describing "BODIES!"

[Marilyn C]

On ‎24‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 4:03 AM, WilliamL said:

Rev. 1:7 Behold, He come with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

How, by what means, will every eye see Jesus Christ at this event?

Hi WilliamL,

Now there is an interesting scripture in Zechariah -

`It shall come to pass in that day that there will be no light; the lights will diminish. It shall be one day which is known to the Lord - neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen that it will be light.` (Zech. 14: 6 & 7)

In verse 7 a particular day is described - an unusual day. A day known to the Lord. A day which is neither light nor dark. A day that quite unnaturally becomes light at evening time. This is a specific day, apart from all other days, & I believe it has a significance inasmuch as it is the day that the Lord of Hosts & His armies leave the heavenly heights to invade the Satanically-ruled earth; & as all natural light has ceased, suddenly this strange, eerie half-light appears. There is no natural light, but it would seem to indicate a light other than that of nature, beginning to change the blackness of the planet.

We know that Jesus has said when He comes it will be with power & great glory, & all the holy angels with Him, & I think this first ray & glimmer of light is emanating from the distant armies of heaven who are on their way to this sin-stricken blackened earth. hence at evening time the light is brighter - as though there were a steady increase in this emanation of glory.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn C.

Sure, that's an interesting passage, but it's even more interesting when you understand what you are reading:

Here's the passage in the KJV:

Zechariah 14:6-7
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
KJV

And, here's the passage in Hebrew:

Z’kharyahu 14:6-7

6 Vhaayaah bayowm hahuw’ lo’ yihyeh owr yqaarowt vqipaa’own:

7 Vhaayaah yowm echaad huw’ yivaada` la-YHVH lo’ yowm vlo’ laaylaah: vhaayaah l`eet `ereV yihyeh owr:

JPS Hebrew-English TANAKH

 

6 Vhaayaah = 6 And-it-shall-be

bayowm = in-a-day

hahuw’ = that

lo’ = not

yihyeh = shall-be

owr = light

yqaarowt = valuable

vqipaa’own: = and/or-shrunk/thickened/clouded:

7 Vhaayaah = 7 And-it-shall-be

yowm = a-day

echaad = one

huw’ = which

yivaada` = shall-be-known

la-YHVH = to-YHVH

lo’ = not

yowm = a-day

vlo’ = and-not

laaylaah: = a-night:

vhaayaah = and-it-shall-be

l`eet = to-time

`ereV = of-an-evening

yihyeh = it-shall-be

owr: = light:

 

The JPS Hebrew-English TANAKH translates it this way:

 

6 In that day, there shall be neither sunlight nor cold moonlight,

7 but there shall be a continuous day -- only the LORD knows when -- of neither day nor night, and there shall be light at eventide.

 

The Complete Jewish Bible translates it this way:

Zechariah 14:6-7
6 On that day, there will be
neither bright light nor thick darkness; 
7 and one day, known to Adonai,
will be neither day nor night,
although by evening there will be light. 
CJB

I believe the CJB is more accurate to say "thick darkness" than "cold moonlight," but that's how they read. Sometimes, it makes better sense to ask the right questions first. These verses were quoted by Yochanan (John) indirectly in Revelation 21 and 22:

Revelation 21:23-25; 22:5
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
...
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV

So, you see, this is one LONG day with no night!

Peter hints at this LONG day in 2 Peter 3:

2 Peter 3:7-13
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

As is revealed in Revelation 20, it is at the END of the Millennium that the Fire falls and the Great White Throne Judgment, "the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men," occurs. Kefa (Peter) hints here that the BEGINNING of the Millennium shall be when the day of the Lord comes as a thief, and that the Lord (the Master, Yeshua`) is "longsuffering to us," "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." Meanwhile, that "day" shall be like a THOUSAND YEARS, and that THOUSAND-YEAR period will be like a single day! Yeshua` shall have returned and His Father shall make His presence known for the sake of His Son! GOD is the source of the light in the New Jerusalem and Yeshua` is the lightbulb, so to speak! When He arrives BEFORE the New Jerusalem does and reigns for a thousand years while haSatan is jailed in the pit, He shall still be that "lightbulb!"

Two other passages are about this time period, the Early Reign of the Messiah: Isaiah 24:21-23 and Psalm 2:

Isaiah 24:21-23
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
KJV

Notice that the sun and the moon shall still exist; however, the sun shall be "ashamed," that is, "outdone" by the light of the LORD of Hosts, and the moon shall be "confounded," that is, "confused/mixed-up" (in its phases by the multiple sources of light)! So, when the LORD of Hosts, YHWH Tsva'owt, reigns in Har Tsiyown and in Yerushalayim, before his ancients, that is before the Patriarchs then resurrected, GLORIOUSLY or BRIGHTLY, He's going to OUT-DO the sun in its strength and MIX UP the phases of the moon as His light contends with the light from the sun!

Finally, the character of His reign is revealed in Psalm 2 in comparison to 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:

Psalm 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his Anointed, saying,
3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us!"
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure:
6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion!
7 I will declare the decree: 'the LORD hath said unto me, <<Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.>>'
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little! Blessed are all they that put their trust in him!"
KJV (colors and punctuation added)

From verses 6 through 12, there's a nesting of three quotes. Using blue for the words of the kings of the earth, purple for the words of the LORD, God the Father, red for the words of Yeshua` (Jesus), and light purple for the words of the LORD again, we can see what exactly is being said here.

For some reason, many feel that this Millennium to come will be a time of peace, but it will ONLY be "a time of peace" for God's people! For the rest of the world, the Millennium will be a time of GREAT CONFLICT:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: (0) Christ the firstfruits; afterward (1) they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then (2) cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

The process of putting all enemies under His feet shall not necessarily be a "bloodless coup!" To the contrary, we are told that He shall reign with a "rod of iron, breaking them and dashing them in pieces like so much pottery!" To say that the "last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" implies that there shall be other enemies before death that shall also be destroyed!

Just some things to consider.

[MorningGlory]

On 12/24/2015 at 11:03 AM, WilliamL said:

Rev. 1:7 Behold, He come with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

How, by what means, will every eye see Jesus Christ at this event?

The Lord is omnipresent....of course. 

[MorningGlory]

9 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Right.

This forum is open to heretics, worldlings, carnal persons, and practically all religions

 

 

You forgot conspiracy theorists, those who are convinced they have all the answers and people who don't know whereof they speak. 

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, MorningGlory said:

The Lord is omnipresent....of course. 

I agree.

Do people think God's power is too little that He can't, supernaturally, make every eye see Jesus when He returns?  This entire conversation makes no sense to me.  lol

 

[gdemoss]

I am of the mind that Jesus Christ, The Son of God, sits at the right hand of God the Father and is ruling and reigning in heaven as Lord of Lords and King of Kings who judges the nations.  That every eye has seen him time and time again as he has judged from heaven since the ascension and he will continue to judge until all enemies are brought under his feet and finally the kingdom is delivered up unto God the Father to rule over having been subdued by his Son.

[MorningGlory]

3 hours ago, gdemoss said:

I am of the mind that Jesus Christ, The Son of God, sits at the right hand of God the Father and is ruling and reigning in heaven as Lord of Lords and King of Kings who judges the nations.  That every eye has seen him time and time again as he has judged from heaven since the ascension and he will continue to judge until all enemies are brought under his feet and finally the kingdom is delivered up unto God the Father to rule over having been subdued by his Son.

Amen, gdemoss.  Well said.

[WilliamL]

Sabbath over, back at it. Very illuminating posts from Retrobyter, tho rather off this topic.

To review: there has been broad agreement so far that when "every eye shall see" Jesus, this at least may, and probably will, be supernatural/spiritual vision. Similar or the same as when the Lord opened Balaam's eyes to see the angel, Gehazi's eyes to see the angelic host, and Ezekiel's eyes to see the LORD descending in the heavenly chariot/merkabah of cherubim and ophanim. To me, the best description was Marv's:

On 12/25/2015 at 0:00 PM, Montana Marv said:

...if All means All, then all mankind will view this, All angels and heavenly creatures will view this.  Those in Heaven and those on Earth, and below the Earth.  It is the grand entrance for the King of Kings and the  Lord of Lords..

So, moving onward, here are a few more scriptures to consider:

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

1 Cor. 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

Luke 12:2 “For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known. 3 Therefore whatever you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the light..."

2 Thes. 1:7 ...when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels... 8 ...those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ... 9 ...shall be punished with everlasting destruction apo/away from the Face of the Lord and apo/away from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe...

What I see in these passages is this: when the Lord appears, "every eye will see him." The Greek for "see" here is "optanomai: to gaze upon, i.e. with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable." (Strong's) In short, everyone will be awe-struck. For those of us who love him and have prepared ourselves for this moment, our spirits will move into his Spirit, "we shall [then] be like him," and be caught up to him.

But for those who have not loved or have not been prepared for this sight, they will be struck with terror. This is why " all the tribes of the earth will mourn/wail because of Him." More on that hereafter. Chew on this for a while.

[WilliamL]

On 12/27/2015 at 5:04 PM, WilliamL said:

...So, moving onward, here are a few more scriptures to consider:

1 John 3:2 ...we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

1 Cor. 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

Luke 12:2 “For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known. 3 Therefore whatever you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the light..."

2 Thes. 1:8 ...those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ... 9 ...shall be punished with everlasting destruction apo/away from the Face of the Lord and apo/away from the glory of His power...

What I see in these passages is this: when the Lord appears, "every eye will see him." The Greek for "see" here is "optanomai: to gaze upon, i.e. with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable." (Strong's) In short, everyone will be awe-struck. For those of us who love him and have prepared ourselves for this moment, our spirits will move into his Spirit, "we shall [then] be like him," and be caught up to him.

But for those who have not loved or have not been prepared for this sight, they will be struck with terror. This is why " all the tribes of the earth will mourn/wail because of Him." ...

In order for every eye to see Him, they have to be facing Him. But what if He is facing back at you. And you know that He sees you too. And not only that-- you're xxxxx-xxxxx naked in His sight, you just know you are ! What will you do in the Light of His Glory when it is revealing your nakedness to everyone better than any TSA body scanner ever could hope for?

Is. 2:10 Enter into the rock, and hide in the dust,
From the terror of the LORD
And the glory of His majesty.

11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled,
The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down,
And the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

Rev. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the Face of Him who sits on the throne and from the Wrath of the Lamb!"

Don't want to be in that crowd no way.