Old Covenant vs New Covenant

[Spock]

7 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

I have met other Gentiles, predominantly Hebrew roots, who say they follow the dietary laws. As far as food, it is ok to choose to eat in anyway your choose. Being Jewish, it leaves me in a quandry, as I have asked others about their dietary practices and would not consider what they eat to match the dietary laws so I would be reluctant to eat at their homes, because they do not really practice what they think they do. Since I have, I find it hard to do what I consider to be a lie. I do not know if you follow all of the dietary laws or not. Many eat the animals on the clean list but ignore the blood restrictions and buy meat from a regular grocery store which does not care about removing the blood.   

My bigger concern is that I know that the dietary laws are separators, so I become concerned that you will not eat with those who do not follow the dietary laws, so I am concerned that you might cut off relationships with other Christians.  The majority of Jewish believers will eat in a home of a person who does not follow the dietary laws, even though they might keep Kosher in their homes. 

I personally have a kitchen setup for Kosher, as I have non-believing family who do keep Kosher. I want them to feel welcome and able to come over for dinner.  And also, I prefer the taste of Kosher meat (without blood). I grew up on it, and find non-Kosher meat has a slightly different taste.

Interesting perspective Q.  I wondered about this myself- how do Jews perceive Christians living more like Jews than they do? 

I know Paul says in Romans 11:. Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.

i guess as long as the Jews have blinders on, they are not going to understand.  Maybe the blinders are being lifted off because the Messianic movement has grown considerably in recent years. 

As far as , is there anything I can do to win a Jew over to Christ.....honestly, I don't even consider this any more than I consider trying to win over a Muslim.  I do try to live my life for God and I am always ready to give an answer when questioned.  I've not had many Jews or Muslims ask me why I love Jesus or what makes Jesus so special? 

Have a nice day. Off to work.

spock

[Shar]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 10:49 PM, Qnts2 said:

The Jewish people do not care what Gentiles believe. Most non-believing Jewish people think the Gentiles worship 3 gods. But, Jewish people are strong believers in religious freedom having experienced persecution for centuries for their own religion, so tend to be very tolerant of Gentiles practicing other religions, and will even fight for Christians rights to practice Christianity, as long as Christianity does not try to stop Jews from practicing Judaism. Believe it or not, most Jewish people have no real clue what Christians believe, or do to practice their religion. Maybe with one exception. While Jewish people do not really understand what Christmas is about, Jewish parents have to talk to their children about why they do not celebrate Christmas. Christmas looks very attractive to the Jewish children. I know of adult Jews who heard Christmas songs, and ended up accepting Jesus thru them. 

As far as Gentiles practicing the law given to the Jewish people, Jewish people think Gentiles are jealous of the Jewish people and the Gentiles wish they were Jews. So, when a Gentile celebrates a Jewish Holy day, that is proof to Jewish people that Gentiles are jealous of Jews, and not the other way around. Gentiles who go so visibly into Jewish things are called 'Jewish wannabes'. Meaning, they are Gentile who want to be Jewish. So the message you think you might be sending, is actually the opposite. Gentiles who try to live more like Jews, usually do such a strange exaggeration of it, that they are considered disrespectful.

Being from Miami, I have lived most my life in a Jewish community.  Jewish friends, roommates, college, neighbors, work colleagues, my doctors, my Rabbi, my place of worship.  When I have shared my Messianic faith, they have been amazed that I would be interested in any form of Judaism.  They have been supportive and quite inquisitive, which has allowed me to introduce them to Messiah.   I have never been accused of a "Jewish wannabe or stealing the faith, or being jealous of them.  They see me as supportive of them and of the Land of Israel, worshipping the one true G-d of Israel.

[Qnts2]

4 hours ago, Shar said:

When Jesus celebrated the last Passover before His death, when it came to the 4 cup of wine, the cup of Redemption, he instructed his disciples to do this in the memory of Me.  He was referencing the Passover and that each time they came to this cup in forthcoming Passover celebrations, do it in the memory of him.  Jesus gave the great commission to his disciples to go and teach the Jews, half-Jews and Gentiles all that He had taught them.  He never taught them to ignore G-d's established feasts or ways.

Your quoting of this from the Emperor is most disturbing and clearly supports my point.  Pagan festivals and pagan customs were substituted in the church for G-d's holy feasts, due to anti-Semitism and hatred for the Jew.

I wondered last year in your posts if you were really a Jew, as you claim.  You do not talk like one, keep the feasts as one, keep the Holy Sabbath as one, or eat like one.  You posts sound Catholic.  A Jew would never speak this way, or support any language that would portray His people in such a disgusting way.

Don't you see my whole point.  Man has substituted G-d's direction for their direction.  G-d's way for man's way.  Substitution in support of hatred for G-d's people.  G-d is very clear, " I will bless those who bless you (Jews) and curse those who curse you".  We need to be very careful.

 

I am Jewish. And I talk like a Jew. You talk like a Gentile who is not really familiar with the Jewish people, or Jewish practices. When I speak of Judaism, and explain Judaism, I do so accurately as my profession prior to believing on Jesus was to teach the law according to Judaism to Jewish people. I was married to a Rabbi, and all of our close friends were Rabbis. My father taught in the synagogue Hebrew school, so I was educated in Judaism. When I speak as a Messianic Jew, I know hundreds of Messianic Jews and their views, so I am familiar with the many views within Messianic Judaism. Hebrew roots, which claims to know Judaism, is not at all accurate. 

Jewish believers do not generally object to Gentiles celebrating Jesus in either Christmas or Easter. We understand that Jesus is central and to be worshipped. We understand the difference of pagan worship and worshipping God. And coming from a Jewish understanding, do not expect Gentiles to practice Jewish law as it was not given to them to practice.

You do not sound Jewish or accurately portray Jewish people, but like most Gentiles who fall into Hebrew roots, practice a corrupted form of the law, which neglects people and becomes judgmental of others. In Judaism, the view of people is held in a higher regard, with an emphasis on mercy and hospitality towards others. That is Judaism and Messianic Judaism.

Just another note. Your use of the dash in the word God, is Jewish tradition, not the Mosaic law. It is an expansion of the law or the fence around the law. If I was communicating with an Orthodox Jew, I would use the dash, for a reason, but not on a Christian forum. In Judaism, to keep from taking God's name in vain, Judaism did not speak or write God's Holy Name. Before that tradition, God's Holy Name, the tetragrammaton was spoken as evidenced in the book of Psalms. In Judaism, if the Holy Name is written, it is to be handled differently as any writing containing the Holy Name must not be thrown in the trash, or burned so is gathered together, taken to the synagogue, and when enough has accumulated, is taken and buried with care. So as not to cause concern or special care taken by Orthodox Jews, I do not use the Holy Name, or write out substitutes like the tradition of G-d. But, on this forum, it is not concerned about Jewish traditions, and I know that no one will know or follow Jewish traditions, and that such a convention is not in scripture or required. 

Finally, Pagan customs were not and are not used since for something to be pagan, it must include honoring a pagan god. Easter does not honor a pagan God. Easter honors Jesus. Easter was an anti-semitic decision encouraged by Constantine, but among todays Christians, Easter is not celebrated with the new name, and date, to be anti-semitic but to honor Jesus. Your posts accusing Christians who are honoring Jesus, of practicing paganism, is a false accusation, and is a greater violation of scripture then celebrating what Jesus did on a date altered centuries ago.

By the way, have you ripped the book of Esther out of your bible yet?    

 

[Qnts2]

4 hours ago, Shar said:

Being from Miami, I have lived most my life in a Jewish community.  Jewish friends, roommates, college, neighbors, work colleagues, my doctors, my Rabbi, my place of worship.  When I have shared my Messianic faith, they have been amazed that I would be interested in any form of Judaism.  They have been supportive and quite inquisitive, which has allowed me to introduce them to Messiah.   I have never been accused of a "Jewish wannabe or stealing the faith, or being jealous of them.  They see me as supportive of them and of the Land of Israel, worshipping the one true G-d of Israel.

I am Jewish and talk with Jewish people as a fellow Jew. I know what Jewish people say to other Jewish people. 

[Qnts2]

4 hours ago, Spock said:

Interesting perspective Q.  I wondered about this myself- how do Jews perceive Christians living more like Jews than they do? 

I know Paul says in Romans 11:. Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.

i guess as long as the Jews have blinders on, they are not going to understand.  Maybe the blinders are being lifted off because the Messianic movement has grown considerably in recent years. 

As far as , is there anything I can do to win a Jew over to Christ.....honestly, I don't even consider this any more than I consider trying to win over a Muslim.  I do try to live my life for God and I am always ready to give an answer when questioned.  I've not had many Jews or Muslims ask me why I love Jesus or what makes Jesus so special? 

Have a nice day. Off to work.

spock

As a Gentile, Jewish people are not concerned about Gentiles living like Gentiles, and are actually more tolerant of Gentiles explaining about Jesus initially. (Many Jewish people, when they begin to actually consider that Jesus might be the Messiah, might want to talk to a Jewish believer about uniquely Jewish concerns that that feel Gentiles have not experienced).

The blinders are blind in part, which means not all Jewish people are blinded. The growth in the number of Messianic Jews to me might be a sign that the age of the Gentiles might be nearing an end and more Jewish people are willing to hear, although some are very resistant. Messianic Judaism started as a purely evangelistic effort with Messianic Jews reaching out to Jewish people. Before that movement, among the Jewish people, we believed that there were no Jews who really believed in Jesus. Those who did make such a claim, did so for advantages in the society and to avoid persecution.

So, feel free to speak as a Gentile to Jewish people. I would suggest only a couple of things. Do not use the term Jew, but instead use the term Jewish or Jewish people. Jewish people are more nervous when a Gentile uses the term Jew, because anti-semites use the term Jew to be accusatory. So if you ask someone if they are a Jew, if they are, it will put them into a caution mode, waiting to see if you follow thru as an anti-semite.

God bless.

[Qnts2]

5 hours ago, Shar said:

Romans 11 is speaking of Israel.  Some of the branches were broken off and though, you, a wild olive branch, have been grafted in among them.  And now share in the nourishing sap of the olive tree.  The olive tree has always been a representation of Israel throughout G-d's word. 

You and I had this discussion last year.  Living in Miami, my grandmother grafted different varieties of mangos into her mango tree from branches of her neighbors' trees.  These branches got all their nourishment in support from her tree, however each season they produced their own different fruit.  The Gentiles keep their physical distinction as do the Jews, yet spiritually we are now one.  The Gentile is now accepted.

This is what Paul is getting at.  We Gentiles are grafted in.  We get our nourishment from the existing system.  We, through faith, are now believers.  We now too share in the adoption as sons.  " For not Israel is Israel,....,but Through faith we are now regarded as the children of the promise and Abraham's offspring.  (Rms. 9: 6-8). 

Prior to Christ, a Gentile became part of Israel and accepted by the act of conversion.  This incorporated three main requirements.  One, faith in the one true G-d of Israel.  Two, circumcision. Three, a mikvah, a baptism. (going down as a Gentile, coming up and fully accepted to the Jews in the faith).  Paul's parallels this act from a spiritual perspective in Colossians 2: 9-12)  "For in Christ.......in him you were also circumcised, in putting off the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men, but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of G-d who raised him from the dead".

Paul further says in Romans 2:29 - "A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.  No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly, and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, and not the written code."   I am not saying we are physical Jews, but through this conversion by the hand of G-d, we have been brought into the Israel. 

In the parable in Romans 11, the native branches are Israel, not the root. Wild Olive branches are not grafted into the Israel branches in the parable, but into the root.

Romans 2 is not saying the Gentiles become Jews. It is explaining the difference between a believing Jew and an unbelieving Jew. It is playing on the meaning of the root Hebrew word for Jew, Yehudah, which means praise.

[Qnts2]

And while I am picking on Hebrew roots:

The term Yashua, or Yahshua is strictly Hebrew roots, and is not an actual Hebrew name or word. Hebrew grammar does not allow for that spelling. The original source of the spelling Yahshua comes from a Gentile movement known as Sacred Name and is based on a theology which mis-interprets what scripture means when it says the Messiah will come in the Name of God, thinking God's Name must literally be contained in the spelling of the Name of Jesus. Hebrew roots was influenced by the Sacred Name movement.

Jesus Hebrew name is Yeshua. Yeshua is the correct Hebrew transliteration into the Roman alphabet.  However, since this is changing alphabets, there is some lattitude as the transliteration must use letters in the alphabet with closest proximates the pronunciation of the original Hebrew. In Messianic Judaism, the spelling of Jesus Hebrew Name is sometimes spelled as Y'shua. The reason is the way Hebrew is pronounced with the accent on the last syllable unlike English. Many English speakers who are not Jewish, mispronounce Yeshua, elongating the first syllable, so the use of Y'shua helps English speakers who are not familiar with Hebrew, come closer to the correct pronunciation, shortening the first syllable. 

[SINNERSAVED]

13 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

And while I am picking on Hebrew roots:

The term Yashua, or Yahshua is strictly Hebrew roots, and is not an actual Hebrew name or word. Hebrew grammar does not allow for that spelling. The original source of the spelling Yahshua comes from a Gentile movement known as Sacred Name and is based on a theology which mis-interprets what scripture means when it says the Messiah will come in the Name of God, thinking God's Name must literally be contained in the spelling of the Name of Jesus. Hebrew roots was influenced by the Sacred Name movement.

Jesus Hebrew name is Yeshua. Yeshua is the correct Hebrew transliteration into the Roman alphabet.  However, since this is changing alphabets, there is some lattitude as the transliteration must use letters in the alphabet with closest proximates the pronunciation of the original Hebrew. In Messianic Judaism, the spelling of Jesus Hebrew Name is sometimes spelled as Y'shua. The reason is the way Hebrew is pronounced with the accent on the last syllable unlike English. Many English speakers who are not Jewish, mispronounce Yeshua, elongating the first syllable, so the use of Y'shua helps English speakers who are not familiar with Hebrew, come closer to the correct pronunciation, shortening the first syllable. 

so  Qnts2,...... which would be the proper way in respect to call Jesus  and God , and the correct spelling, for I am spelling it yahshua as the Hebrew bible shows me as it is written , some say Yashua ,and Yahweh for God , or Elohim,

you say if a Gentile to use the greek  way  of spelling , or did I understand you wrong ? I am a gentile with no Hebrew or jewish ties, so to be respectful ,let me hear your advise, and I will take others on in this question for it is important to me to know this, for I can say Jesus  or God in English, but I would prefer to go back to its origin and be correct , so I ask for some clarification, thank you to all and blessings

[Qnts2]

3 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

so  Qnts2,...... which would be the proper way in respect to call Jesus  and God , and the correct spelling, for I am spelling it yahshua as the Hebrew bible shows me as it is written , some say Yashua ,and Yahweh for God , or Elohim,

you say if a Gentile to use the greek  way  of spelling , or did I understand you wrong ? I am a gentile with no Hebrew or jewish ties, so to be respectful ,let me hear your advise, and I will take others on in this question for it is important to me to know this, for I can say Jesus  or God in English, but I would prefer to go back to its origin and be correct , so I ask for some clarification, thank you to all and blessings

I'm not sure what 'Hebrew' bible you have, but the spelling is wrong. Sacred Name which is cultic, uses that spelling. Some Sacred Namers joined in with some Hebrew roots groups and taugh the erroneous spelling.

Sacred Name teaches that when scripture says Yeshua will come in God's name, they take that in a very strange way, and think because a shortened version of God's Name is Yah, and Jesus came in God's name, then Jesus Hebrew name must begin with Yah. But, Hebrew grammar does not allow for that spelling so it is basically not a Hebrew name or word, but is a made up word to match their doctrine.

Pure Sacred Name theology also teaches that since we are saved in Jesus Name, to be saved, you must pronounce the name correctly. If you pray to Jesus, you can not be saved because you used the wrong name. If you do no say 'Yahshua' you are not saved. And if you mispronounce it, you can not be saved.

Added: A Jewish person usually takes a name from the language of the country that he lives in. For example, Paul was Paul's Greek name. Saul was Paul's Hebrew name. Because Paul was called to the Gentiles, he used his Greek name. Jesus is fine. And Yeshua is fine. For most in English speaking countries, they would not recognize Yeshua, but in Israel, they would not recognize or understand who you are talking about if you said Jesus. 

The only time it is beneficial to know Jesus Hebrew name is Yeshua is when the meaning of Yeshua is important. Yeshua means 'salvation'. There is a play of words in the NT, concerning the meaning of Yeshua.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

If you understand that Jesus, or Yeshua means salvation, then it makes more sense that you shall call his name Yeshua (salvation), for he shall save his people.

[thereselittleflower]

5 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

I'm not sure what 'Hebrew' bible you have, but the spelling is wrong. Sacred Name which is cultic, uses that spelling. Some Sacred Namers joined in with some Hebrew roots groups and taugh the erroneous spelling.

Sacred Name teaches that when scripture says Yeshua will come in God's name, they take that in a very strange way, and think because a shortened version of God's Name is Yah, and Jesus came in God's name, then Jesus Hebrew name must begin with Yah. But, Hebrew grammar does not allow for that spelling so it is basically not a Hebrew name or word, but is a made up word to match their doctrine.

Pure Sacred Name theology also teaches that since we are saved in Jesus Name, to be saved, you must pronounce the name correctly. If you pray to Jesus, you can not be saved because you used the wrong name. If you do no say 'Yahshua' you are not saved. And if you mispronounce it, you can not be saved.

That's what worries me when people become fixated on the right way to say Jesus' name.   That they are placing so much importance on it, they can go off on a tangent and then become unbalanced in their theology.

 

Worship is a matter of the heart.  Jesus knows our heart's call to Him - which ever name we use, He isn't going to favor us anymore than somoene else.  His love is not small like that.