FINDING COMMON GROUND IN DANIEL

[Marilyn C]

51 minutes ago, Serving said:

Hi M,

There is a mistake in there M .. it is not the 4th beast that that took their dominion away, it is Christ doing it at His coming .. look again ..

Daniel 7:9-12

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

See how the beast was destroyed by Christ THEN this occurred :

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

When Christ returns ALL NATIONS lose their DOMINIONS (power of SELF rule) .. not only those beasts who still operate in the world minus their empires of old, but EVERY beast on the planet loses their dominion to Christ's dominion.

Their lives are prolonged, meaning their populations will have survivors DURING the MILLENNIUM living OUTSIDE of the kingdom boundaries is all.

Their needs to be HEATHEN survivors over the 1000 years otherwise WHO will populate Gog's armies AFTER the millennium when Satan gets released to gather the last remnants of mankind who still even then reject Christ?

Serving.

 

 

Hi Serving,

Thank you for looking into this. Yes I realise that the 4th beast did not take away the other beasts dominion. Glad you see that too. However the point is that these other beasts are there & will go into the Millennium, but not ruling. So we then realise that the - Lion/Eagle, the bear, the leopard super powers are therefore all contemporary & NOT historic.

Glad you see that these nations entering the millennium.

Marilyn.

[Serving]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Serving,

Thank you for looking into this. Yes I realise that the 4th beast did not take away the other beasts dominion. Glad you see that too. However the point is that these other beasts are there & will go into the Millennium, but not ruling. So we then realise that the - Lion/Eagle, the bear, the leopard super powers are therefore all contemporary & NOT historic.

Glad you see that these nations entering the millennium.

Marilyn.

Hi M,

We are seeing things just a little differently though we do have common ground, which is good.

I would like to ask you a question .. Daniel chapter 7 & Daniel chapter 8 .. What are the differences AND commonalities (if any) between the beast imagery within the two chapters according to your understanding and in your own words?

Nothing too elaborate, just straight from your memory/understanding .. explain it briefly if you'd like, no need going to too much effort at the moment M.

Because the differences / commonalities will help with the last beast interpretation GREATLY.

Serving.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, Serving said:

Hi M,

We are seeing things just a little differently though we do have common ground, which is good.

I would like to ask you a question .. Daniel chapter 7 & Daniel chapter 8 .. What are the differences AND commonalities (if any) between the beast imagery within the two chapters according to your understanding and in your own words?

Nothing too elaborate, just straight from your memory/understanding .. explain it briefly if you'd like, no need going to too much effort at the moment M.

Because the differences / commonalities will help with the last beast interpretation GREATLY.

Serving.

Hi Serving,

I`ll try & keep it brief. The book of Daniel is written in 2 parts in 2 different languages –

1. Aramaic – International language of the time, for the Nations.

2. Hebrew – for the people of Israel.

Two different perspectives regarding God`s purposes for 1. The Nations, & 2. Israel.

 

Ist Section – in Aramaic to the Nations. (Dan. 2: 4 – 7: 28)

Ch. 2 is an overview of the Gentile world rulers from Babylon till the final one.

Ch. 7 is the lead up of contemporary Super Powers till the final Global Government.

 

 

2^nd Section – in Hebrew to Israel. (Dan. 8 – 12)

In dealing with His rebellious people Israel, God reveals certain important events regarding - 

• The desecration of their sanctuary. (the Holy of Holies)

• The atoning of the nation, its land, its people & the holy city.

Ch. 8. Who desecrates the sanctuary, for how long & from where he arises. We are given the historic background & then God brings it forward to the appointed time. Thus we see a description of the Medes & Persians (2 powers) as a ram (2 horns – powers) against a swift goat, (Greece). The leader of Greece, Alexander the Great, quickly rose to power & overcame the M & P. He established his kingdom from Babylon.

God then jumps the centuries & shows another leader arising from that same area (Babylon). He is the one who will desecrate the sanctuary. (8: 23 – 25)

Note: I believe we always need to understand God`s purpose (as He tells us) & then the details fit within that.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Serving,

Here is your particular question. Thank you for asking.

 

Quote

`I would like to ask you a question .. Daniel chapter 7 & Daniel chapter 8 .. What are the differences AND commonalities (if any) between the beast imagery within the two chapters according to your understanding and in your own words?

 

So having read my notes in the previous post you will see that God`s purpose for showing these `beasts` are different.

1. The 4  beasts in ch. 7 are a description of the super powers that lead to the final Global Government. The details give us a clear understanding of who they are today & the order they arise in.

2. The 2 animals in Ch. 8 are relating to the desecration of Israel`s sanctuary -  the person who does this & where he comes from - historic background then to the appointed time.

 

The 4 beasts (ch. 7) are descriptive of their nature & beginnings, while the 2 animals (ch. 8) show where the person who will desecrate the temple comes from.

 

Marilyn.

 

Edited January 16, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Serving]

ooops

 

[Serving]

22 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Serving,

I`ll try & keep it brief. The book of Daniel is written in 2 parts in 2 different languages –

1. Aramaic – International language of the time, for the Nations.

2. Hebrew – for the people of Israel.

Two different perspectives regarding God`s purposes for 1. The Nations, & 2. Israel.

 

Ist Section – in Aramaic to the Nations. (Dan. 2: 4 – 7: 28)

Ch. 2 is an overview of the Gentile world rulers from Babylon till the final one.

Ch. 7 is the lead up of contemporary Super Powers till the final Global Government.

 

 

2^nd Section – in Hebrew to Israel. (Dan. 8 – 12)

In dealing with His rebellious people Israel, God reveals certain important events regarding - 

• The desecration of their sanctuary. (the Holy of Holies)

• The atoning of the nation, its land, its people & the holy city.

Ch. 8. Who desecrates the sanctuary, for how long & from where he arises. We are given the historic background & then God brings it forward to the appointed time. Thus we see a description of the Medes & Persians (2 powers) as a ram (2 horns – powers) against a swift goat, (Greece). The leader of Greece, Alexander the Great, quickly rose to power & overcame the M & P. He established his kingdom from Babylon.

God then jumps the centuries & shows another leader arising from that same area (Babylon). He is the one who will desecrate the sanctuary. (8: 23 – 25)

Note: I believe we always need to understand God`s purpose (as He tells us) & then the details fit within that.

 

Marilyn.

=========================

 Hi Serving,

Here is your particular question. Thank you for asking.

`I would like to ask you a question .. Daniel chapter 7 & Daniel chapter 8 .. What are the differences AND commonalities (if any) between the beast imagery within the two chapters according to your understanding and in your own words?

 

So having read my notes in the previous post you will see that God`s purpose for showing these `beasts` are different.

1. The 4  beasts in ch. 7 are a description of the super powers that lead to the final Global Government. The details give us a clear understanding of who they are today & the order they arise in.

2. The 2 animals in Ch. 8 are relating to the desecration of Israel`s sanctuary -  the person who does this & where he comes from - historic background then to the appointed time.

 

The 4 beasts (ch. 7) are descriptive of their nature & beginnings, while the 2 animals (ch. 8) show where the person who will desecrate the temple comes from.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

Hi M,

I'm confused a little here ..

You said that chapter 7 deals with modern 'super powers' ('leading up to', aside)

 

Quote

1. The 4  beasts in ch. 7 are a description of the super powers that lead to the final Global Government. The details give us a clear understanding of who they are today & the order they arise in.

Which you termed "contemporary" (modern) again here :

Quote

Ch. 7 is the lead up of contemporary Super Powers till the final Global Government.

Yet this :

Quote

The 4 beasts (ch. 7) are descriptive of their nature & beginnings

Has me very confused ??

Daniel chapter 7 is either contemporary (modern) 'super powers' as you said .. or .. historic 'super powers' which you also said immediately above, "Their nature & beginnings",

But it can't be both M .. either chapter 7 concerns the contemporary (modern) 'super powers' or it concerns the past 'super powers' ..

Can you please clarify for me because I am confused at the seeming contradiction ??

Thanks M.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Serving

[Marilyn C]

Hi Serving,

 

Yes I can see how I may have caused you confusion. Sorry about that. Hope I can clear it up.

I believe (& was taught) that the 4 beasts, are super powers of today, thus contemporary. Now as regards their beginnings, that means when they arose, which is not too far in the past. Each one arose after a war & are all great powers of today.

1. After the Napoleonic war.

2. After WW1.

3. After WW2.

4. Will arise after WW3.

 

Hope that is clearer. Marilyn.

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Serving]

5 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Serving,

 

Yes I can see how I may have caused you confusion. Sorry about that. Hope I can clear it up.

I believe (& was taught) that the 4 beasts, are super powers of today, thus contemporary. Now as regards their beginnings, that means when they arose, which is not too far in the past. Each one arose after a war & are all great powers of today.

1. After the Napoleonic war.

2. After WW1.

3. After WW2.

4. Will arise after WW3.

 

Hope that is clearer. Marilyn.

 

 

 

LOL .. I'm still struggling a little here ..

Okay, just for starters :

1- so chapter 7 is recent past (as above) up to now right ?

2 - both chapters nevertheless are to do with kingdoms / 'super powers' with chapter 8 the historic part .. yes?

Thanks M.

[Serving]

17 minutes ago, Serving said:

LOL .. I'm still struggling a little here ..

Okay, just for starters :

1- so chapter 7 is recent past (as above) up to now right ?

2 - both chapters nevertheless are to do with kingdoms / 'super powers' with chapter 8 the historic part .. yes?

Thanks M.

Sorry Marilyn but my questioning will become clear soon enough, I just want to be sure of your EXACT stance this time before answering because a precise answer suggests a precise understanding is all. (not being cocky or smart here either)

And when I said 'just for starters', it was because AFTER you confirm the above and after I respond .. I'd still like to know who you see those 4 beasts are out of curiosity, where you mentioned #1 as 'After the Napoleonic war' etc.

Thanks M.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Serving,

Yes ch. 7 I believe tells us of recent past great powers who are still here today.

But ch. 8 `ram & goat,` as we are told in God`s word are the Medes & Persians, & Greece. They are past World Rulers (not just super powers). We need to remember that Ch. 8 starts a whole different section in relation to Israel. These world Rulers M & P & Greece fought in the Middle East & when God jumps to the appointed time of the end (now) then that is where the Global leader will come from - the Middle East, who will desecrate the sanctuary.

 

Now as to your next question - Who are these great super powers of today? Do you want to have a try? And I appreciate that you are trying to understand my view before you comment on it.

Marilyn.

 

Edited January 16, 2016 by Marilyn C