Kan Posted January 30, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2016 On 1/28/2016 at 4:30 AM, Ezra said: Kan, You have set up a straw man and expect to get some serious response. Of course God does not give everlasting "life" to the unrepentant and the unsaved. But He does give everlasting death -- the second death -- to those who enter the Lake of Fire. I would caution you to not make this doctrine a football for debate. There are numerous warnings in Scripture about the eternal damnation of souls which are lost. If you refuse to believe that, then you are actually disbelieving the Word. If you refuse to preacI've given you h that, you are preaching another Gospel, and you should know how God regards those who preach another Gospel. That's right, everlasting death - they will never be resurrected. The Bible does not teach life in death. The only way one lives after death is by resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 30, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,263 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,499 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Because a great number of people believe in heaven and not in hell should indicate to us the persuasive nature or desire of the lie ... it is scary! That is why we see this verse proclaimed-Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. KJV However the onus does not fall on us to prove eternal punishment for it is clearly stated in the Word-Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. KJV The hermeneutic is clear and it is simple: “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2) “eternal fire” Matthew 25:41 - they are saying that which is in the fire burns up why then does the fire last forever? “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12) - if the fire is it not quenched when that within it is burned up why does it continue to burn? “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49) - so much so it is repeated in Scripture... “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9) - destruction that is never ending or how could it be everlasting destruction? “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10) - it is what it is "simple" ... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 30, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,263 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,499 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 30, 2016 9 hours ago, bopeep1909 said: Read the Bible and actually take it literally? What a unique thought why didn't I think of this... oh wait God within did it for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 30, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,263 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,499 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 30, 2016 52 minutes ago, Kan said: That's right, everlasting death - they will never be resurrected. The Bible does not teach life in death. The only way one lives after death is by resurrection. No there is only life in Jesus and being separated from Him is existence in death... the onus is on all of you who say death is non-existence to prove it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted January 30, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 46 minutes ago, enoob57 said: No there is only life in Jesus and being separated from Him is existence in death... the onus is on all of you who say death is non-existence to prove it! Enoob, do you believe hell and the lack of fire are different places? If so, why and to what purpose? And why does hell get thrown and burned in the lake of fire? Thanks, spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 30, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,263 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,499 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Just now, Spock said: Enoob, do you believe he'll and the lack of fire are different places? If so, why and to what purpose? And why does he'll get thrown and burned in the lake of fire? Thanks, spock It is as now for us all- we are in a place of temporary keeping and will enter the eternal state of being when The Father's use of time 'IS' present for it... As Jesus has spoken to us as friendsJn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. KJV we have the responsibility to set within the hermeneutic of The Word no matter the influence without... The Love of God has been fully revealed in The Son and a Loving God has offered a completed way of escape from eternal separation from life in Him... Hell simply is a place wherein only God's wrath abides and it is not quenched nor can be for it contains that which would not accept God or His Way... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted January 30, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 55 minutes ago, enoob57 said: It is as now for us all- we are in a place of temporary keeping and will enter the eternal state of being when The Father's use of time 'IS' present for it... As Jesus has spoken to us as friendsJn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. KJV we have the responsibility to set within the hermeneutic of The Word no matter the influence without... The Love of God has been fully revealed in The Son and a Loving God has offered a completed way of escape from eternal separation from life in Him... Hell simply is a place wherein only God's wrath abides and it is not quenched nor can be for it contains that which would not accept God or His Way... Love, Steven Enoob, Sorry for being dense this morning, but did you specifically answer my specific questions to you? Would you mind addressing each of my questions specifically? Thanks. i really want to know if people believe hell and the lake of fire are different and to what purpose is each? And why does hell get thrown into the lake of fire to be burned? What does burned mean to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted January 30, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 1 hour ago, enoob57 said: Because a great number of people believe in heaven and not in hell should indicate to us the persuasive nature or desire of the lie ... it is scary! That is why we see this verse proclaimed-Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. KJV However the onus does not fall on us to prove eternal punishment for it is clearly stated in the Word-Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. KJV The hermeneutic is clear and it is simple: “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2) “eternal fire” Matthew 25:41 - they are saying that which is in the fire burns up why then does the fire last forever? “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12) - if the fire is it not quenched when that within it is burned up why does it continue to burn? “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49) - so much so it is repeated in Scripture... “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9) - destruction that is never ending or how could it be everlasting destruction? “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10) - it is what it is "simple" ... Love, Steven Enoob, you lose a ton of credibility with me when you site partial quotes and leave out the entire context. Let's just look at one example from your above quotes- Rev 20:10 you cited the words "tormented day and night forever and ever" and use that to support your position that the tormenting is FOREVER. Okay, it sounds good, but let's look at the entire verse in context. rev 20:10: 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. oh my, this is quite a different thing! Look who the subject is here: the devil, the beast, and the false prophet. Hmm, not all losties of all time.....nope, just the 3 evil amigos. So, why is Enoob using this verse to support his position? He isn't using the entire verse, just a portion, and he is hoping the reader is not smart enough to research the entire context. (This strategy often works for some who are lazy in their study of scripture. ) So, what does this verse show? It shows me that the 3 evil amigos will be tormented FOREVER, BUT NO MORE THAN THEM. if you want to prove all the losties of all time burn in torment forever, please don't cite this verse. In fact, this verse supports my position- God limits those subjects who will burn forever to these three for sure. I believe some fallen angels too pursuant to Matt 25. Lets debate/discuss fairly, please. Spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 30, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,263 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,499 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 30, 2016 39 minutes ago, Spock said: Enoob, do you believe he'll and the lack of fire are different places?In The Word the containment changes but the torment in it does not change... If so, why and to what purpose? My answer was primarily to this and did not satisfy you... please read it again for my answer. (below) And why does he'll get thrown and burned in the lake of fire? There seems to be a reverential caution in the question of why when studying Scripture... Mainly in determining the source or prevailing influence to do so! One- would be challenging God to why of His doing; The other- would be to understand what is true and what is perfect, and what is right... if the influence is the first stated/ then never will they have answer ( although they think they do) and the second/ will advance in the privilege of knowing God more intimately... We are inundated with error and wrong spiritual influences in this place so carefully we must walk in The Word outside of this present place of influence... there has always been a burning in hell as that fire is never quenched but the containment for the fire moves from a temporary place to a eternal permanence of place! for those in the flame it will matter not the real estate of where the fire is kept (!) Those who are trying to place hell into a non-existence are basically following an earthy agenda of error- influenced by what they perceive as what a loving (g)od would do in order to accept him as so! However the issue lies in The Quality of God's Wrath as His Love in the infinite of all His attributes ... He exceeds our abilities to discern and understand but the proper hermeneutic of His Word leads us in growth toward what 'IS' verses what is not... Thanks, spock 24 minutes ago, enoob57 said: It is as now for us all- we are in a place of temporary keeping and will enter the eternal state of being when The Father's use of time 'IS' present for it... As Jesus has spoken to us as friendsJn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. KJV we have the responsibility to set within the hermeneutic of The Word no matter the influence without... The Love of God has been fully revealed in The Son and a Loving God has offered a completed way of escape from eternal separation from life in Him... Hell simply is a place wherein only God's wrath abides and it is not quenched nor can be for it contains that which would not accept God or His Way... Love, Steven I left this here in quote so you would not have to return to other place of it's keeping... 2 minutes ago, Spock said: Enoob, Sorry for being dense this morning, but did you specifically answer my specific questions to you? Would you mind addressing each of my questions specifically? Thanks. Spock I think it important for you to understand that knowledge is passing away 1Cor 13... why I say this to you is that I perceive you are under to much of it's influence and it is puffing you up I certainly could be wrong but your writing suggests this-> I'm am speaking to you in love not condemnation!!! The brokenness and contriteness of what and where we are can only be accomplished by s/Spirit... our need to walk in The Spirit is a matter of focus toward God as helpless in any resource other than Him and His Spirit sourced in His Word. Our Father in His Son has so warned us of the difficulty of the narrow and upward path we have been set upon and few that find it... this too is the self same path we are to walk! I spend a lot of self searching to make sure I am dead and the place I am in is dead to me= so that I may hear Him and follow... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted January 30, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, enoob57 said: I left this here in quote so you would not have to return to other place of it's keeping... Spock I think it important for you to understand that knowledge is passing away 1Cor 13... why I say this to you is that I perceive you are under to much of it's influence and it is puffing you up I certainly could be wrong but your writing suggests this-> I'm am speaking to you in love not condemnation!!! The brokenness and contriteness of what and where we are can only be accomplished by s/Spirit... our need to walk in The Spirit is a matter of focus toward God as helpless in any resource other than Him and His Spirit sourced in His Word. Our Father in His Son has so warned us of the difficulty of the narrow and upward path we have been set upon and few that find it... this too is the self same path we are to walk! I spend a lot of self searching to make sure I am dead and the place I am in is dead to me= so that I may hear Him and follow... Love, Steven Do me a favor Enoob, if you don't want to address the topic at hand and debate, but merely want to talk to me personally, send me a private email. We don't need the entire board to be dragged down in this mud. I hope you agree. No more personal off topic comments please. Email me. I'm here. Oh, and for the record, I couldn't care less what you believe regarding this issue. I'm not even trying to convince people like you, MG, Ezra, etc because I know you have your minds made up and that is fine by me. We are all adults and have been given free will, and you may even be right. My feelings aren't hurt. but you people seem to believe Shar and I are promoting a doctrine of Satan here. well, try to look at it from another viewpoint- maybe some losties don't accept Jesus because they believe God is unloving and too harsh because they perceive him as deriving pleasure in wanting people to burn in torment forever by keeping it going forever. Hypothetical scenario: So, maybe, just maybe, a lostie has been led here to this thread and are reading Shar and my words, and maybe, just maybe, this lostie sees God in a different way now. Not this vindictive vengeful person who derives some sick pleasure in watching people tormented endlessly, but instead is aware that this punishment is limited and purposeful, and no longer sees God as this cruel vindictive God and is now more open to receive the good news of Jesus Christ. Isnt this possible? If you say yes, then I guess it is not a doctrine of Satan because I doubt Satan wants anyone to receive the gospel,of love through Christ our lord. (I'm sure you will say no...) anyhow, go private if not applicable to the topic of hell being eternal, please. Spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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