The beast that goes into Perdition

[Ezra]

On 15/02/2016 at 0:14 AM, gdemoss said:

Thanks Jeff, this is akin to Therese's point but it appears to be in error through the possibility of missing information. 

Gary,

I am going to be very blunt.  It does not help your case or your understanding of Scripture to dodge what is plainly stated, and come up with excuses such as "appears to be in error" and "possibility of missing the information".  

Since you are generally keen on the truth, and have been shown the truth by several posters, it is time to accept the truth and repent of your erroneous understanding (for your own sake).  When we resist the light, we will not receive more light.

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

Flower

When do you believe we were created?Do you feel it's at inception?If so how do you explain why God hated Esau before he was born?

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

 

And how did He know Jermaiah before he was born.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

 

Now thinking I know what your answer will be,and like most,you'll say,because God knows everthing.

 

Me on the other hand I take that verse to mean just what it says,He knew him,meaning personally He knew him,just like me knowing my best friend...

 

 

I see many problems with your arguments and questions.

Your questions imply, and so by implication tacitly argue,  that because God "hated" Esau before he was born that means that one's soul is not created at conception (inception is the wrong word).

But such an argument doesn't make any sense.

The scriptures do not say Before Esau was CONCEIVED God "hated" him, but before he was BORN.

So there is no contradiction between being created at conception and God favoring or disfavoring one before they are born 9 months later.

 

You're quotes are about BIRTH, not CONCEPTION  so they don't apply to your argument at all.

 

In Jeremiah 1:5 each of the words we would look at have  several different senses and do not require that God knew Jeremiah before he was conceived.

 

"formed"

• Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
  יָצַר yâtsar, yaw-tsar'; probably identical with H3334 (through the squeezing into shape); (compareH3331); to mould into a form; especially as a potter; figuratively, to determine (i.e. form a resolution):—× earthen, fashion, form, frame, make(-r), potter, purpose.
• Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

  1. to form, fashion, frame

     1. (Qal) to form, fashion

        1. of human activity

        2. of divine activity

           1. of creation

              1. of original creation

              2. of individuals at conception

              3. of Israel as a people

           2. to frame, pre-ordain, plan (fig. of divine) purpose of a situation)

we know that a newly conceived human has no frame, no form, is just a bunch of cells dividing.  As time passes, they begin to differentiate and after more time passes, the brain and neural tube  and the heart form, but there is no frame, no "squezing into shape"

It is not until several weeks have passed that it begins to look something human like.

 

God is saying here that from his conception, before God molded him, framed him, squeezed him into shape, He knew him.

 

There is nothing here that mandates we understand God knew him before he was ever conceived.

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

  

3 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Could not agree more,just like the entire word of God is written in the stars,however man has corrupted that as well...

 

So you're promoting astrology now?!

 

[n2thelight]

18 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

 

I see many problems with your arguments and questions.

Your questions imply, and so by implication tacitly argue,  that because God "hated" Esau before he was born that means that one's soul is not created at conception (inception is the wrong word).

But such an argument doesn't make any sense.

The scriptures do not say Before Esau was CONCEIVED God "hated" him, but before he was BORN.

So there is no contradiction between being created at conception and God favoring or disfavoring one before they are born 9 months later.

 

You're quotes are about BIRTH, not CONCEPTION  so they don't apply to your argument at all.

 

In Jeremiah 1:5 each of the words we would look at have  several different senses and do not require that God knew Jeremiah before he was conceived.

 

"formed"

• Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
  יָצַר yâtsar, yaw-tsar'; probably identical with H3334 (through the squeezing into shape); (compareH3331); to mould into a form; especially as a potter; figuratively, to determine (i.e. form a resolution):—× earthen, fashion, form, frame, make(-r), potter, purpose.
• Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

  1. to form, fashion, frame

     1. (Qal) to form, fashion

        1. of human activity

        2. of divine activity

           1. of creation

              1. of original creation

              2. of individuals at conception

              3. of Israel as a people

           2. to frame, pre-ordain, plan (fig. of divine) purpose of a situation)

we know that a newly conceived human has no frame, no form, is just a bunch of cells dividing.  As time passes, they begin to differentiate and after more time passes, the brain and neural tube  and the heart form, but there is no frame, no "squezing into shape"

It is not until several weeks have passed that it begins to look something human like.

 

God is saying here that from his conception, before God molded him, framed him, squeezed him into shape, He knew him.

 

There is nothing here that mandates we understand God knew him before he was ever conceived.

 

 

 

What...Soooooo 9 months later God hated Esau,wow!!!!!!

 

You can spin a definition on words all you want,but the fact remains,before he was formed in the womb,God knew him,period..........

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

7 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

What...Soooooo 9 months later God hated Esau,wow!!!!!!

 

You can spin a definition on words all you want,but the fact remains,before he was formed in the womb,God knew him,period..........

 

 

 

Now you're misrepresenting what I said.  

Sad that you're spinning what I said through misrepresentation to denounce it.

All you have done is create a strawman as a substitute for what I actually said, then act as though that by attacking the strawman you created, you successfully responded to what I actually said  -  but you didn't.  

 

 

[gdemoss]

17 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

Greeting Brother gdemoss,

First, let me start by stating I have blocked only three people over my 13 years of coming to WB, and thereselittleflower is one. I thought for sure I’d never have to see her again, but apparently when some quotes her to respond I still see it. Sigh…

However, here is what scriptures say about Jesus being born through the womb -

Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Luke 2:11 - For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

God the Son did not mysteriously descend from heaven and just slip on a glove of flesh in the womb of Mary. He was born, a man just like every other man with the exception the spirit within that earthen vessel of humanity was not finite like ours, but in it dwelt the fullness of divinity, the infinite, immortal, and invisible, only wise God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace our Saviour and King. It was through His holy conception and birth that God was manifested in the flesh, and event that that has become defined and extra biblical terms as incarnate, a late middle English word that is derived from ecclesiastical Latin incarnat which simply means “made flesh,” and comes from the verb incarnare which means  in- ‘into’ + caro, carn- ‘flesh.’

That fleshly vessel of humanity was “made flesh in the womb of Mary and “into flesh” came the eternal Spirit of God and thus tabernacled with men. This is what has become known in later years as the hypostatic union of divinity and humanity in one hypothesis.

As far as angel procreating with humanity, the book of Enoch clearly speaks of such, as well as thier meddling with other creatures of God's creation which many feel led to actual existance of so called the "mythical" creatures. Thus givng God cause to not only spare Noah and his family that were still a pure blood line, but pure animals as well.

You use a phrase I am not familiar with.  Finite spirit.  You mean to say limited when you use finite this way?

[n2thelight]

2 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Now you're misrepresenting what I said.

Sad that you're spinning what I said through misrepresentation to denounce it.

All you have done is create a strawman as a substitute for what I actually said, then act as though that by attacking the strawman you created, you successfully responded to what I actually said  -  but you didn't.  

 

 

I asked you a simple question,which was,how did God know Jeremaiah before he was born.

[gdemoss]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

Gary,

I am going to be very blunt.  It does not help your case or your understanding of Scripture to dodge what is plainly stated, and come up with excuses such as "appears to be in error" and "possibility of missing the information".  

Since you are generally keen on the truth, and have been shown the truth by several posters, it is time to accept the truth and repent of your erroneous understanding (for your own sake).  When we resist the light, we will not receive more light.

Ezra, thank you for being forward. God knows the truth behind that which I plainly have stated.  You may accuse me of coming up with excuses but I cannot see what I cannot see.  Jesus once told Peter that he could not know that he was the Christ if God had not revealed it unto him yet you would outright call me to public repentance to confess something that is not revealed as truth to me?  

I want to encourage you to think about what your doing.  What may be absolutely plain to you is hidden from the eyes of others.  This is scriptural Old Testament revelation.  I try to be careful not to blame my inadequacies in teaching upon the students for God deals harshly with such according to James.

You have not injured me at all.  Peace unto you.  And if you be right, may God give me eyes to see.

[thereselittleflower]

20 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

I asked you a simple question,which was,how did God know Jeremaiah before he was born.

And I explained  your question was irrelevant.

Why would God not know Jeremiah before he was born?

Why would God knot know Jeremiah while he was in the womb, between the moment of conception and birth?

 

 

 

[n2thelight]

5 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

And I explained  your question was irrelevant.

Why would God not know Jeremiah before he was born?

Why would God knot know Jeremiah while he was in the womb, between the moment of conception and birth?

 

 

 

Question was not irrelevant,my position is that we are with God before being born,to which I gave scripture supporting that view.

Now you say,why would God not know him while in the womb,yet the scripture states

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

As for Esau,He(God)hated him,why?

 

What Im saying is even backed up by the below verse

Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"

How and why were some chosen ?

 

So Im guessing,things you can't answer  means irrelevant.....