Soaking Sessions

[thereselittleflower]

11 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

The statement by Jesus was given to the disciples. The statement was made before the New Covenant, before the giving of the Holy Spirit, and before Christianity. Christianity does not teach self denial, it teaches a new creation, continuing sanctification, being conformed to Jesus, and having a renewed mind, all by the work of the Holy Spirit. 

The enemy of Christian souls would like nothing more then a bunch of people claiming to be Christians to engage in self denial, since the focus becomes self rather then God. Self denial ignores Jesus work on the cross, death, resurrection and gift of the Holy Spirit. Self denial is religion, but not Christianity. 

Buddhism practices self denial. Asceticism is practiced by Islam, and Hinduism also. 

I'm sorry,  if the words spoken by Christ before the giving of the Holy Spirit are to be disregard, as you imply this is, then the commands and teachings of Jesus have no real relevance today, for they are almost all made before the giving of the Holy Spirit.

This is not the Gospel of Christ.

 

Just because self denial is practiced in other religions, this doesn't invalidate it in the Christian faith.

If the practice of self denial in these other religions invalidates it in the life of the Christian, then  I guess we better all stop praying too because prayer is practiced in these other religions too.

 

You are simply denying the validity of the plain words of Christ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Qnts2]

1 minute ago, thereselittleflower said:

I'm sorry,  if the words spoken by Christ before the giving of the Holy Spirit are to be disregard, as you imply this is, then the commands and teachings of Jesus have no real relevance today, for they are almost all made before the giving of the Holy Spirit.

This is not the Gospel of Christ.

 

Just because self denial is practiced in other religions, this doesn't invalidate it in the Christian faith.

If the practice of self denial in these other religions invalidates it in the life of the Christian, then  I guess we better all stop praying too because prayer is practiced in these other religions too.

 

You are simply denying the validity of the plain words of Christ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not denying Jesus words. I am showing what Jesus words meant, and I am showing what is taught in the New Covenant.

Self denial is not a part of Christianity. Christianity is a changed life but self denial is not a changed life. It is trying to deny desires, not changed desires.

I added the following to my precious post to show the invalid definition of the word.

Added: The definition from Stongs,

to forget one's self, lose sight of one's self and one's own interests

Self denial is not forgetting one's self, it is focusing on self and denying what self wants.

 

[thereselittleflower]

22 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

I am not denying Jesus words. I am showing what Jesus words meant, and I am showing what is taught in the New Covenant.

Self denial is not a part of Christianity. Christianity is a changed life but self denial is not a changed life. It is trying to deny desires, not changed desires.

I added the following to my precious post to show the invalid definition of the word.

Added: The definition from Stongs,

to forget one's self, lose sight of one's self and one's own interests

Self denial is not forgetting one's self, it is focusing on self and denying what self wants.

 

I disagree you are showing what Jesus' words meant.     We cannot twist the words of Christ to justify not doing what He tells us is necessary to do otherwise we cannot be His disciples.  If we are not His disciples then we are lost.

You said

• " Self denial ignores Jesus work on the cross, death, resurrection and gift of the Holy Spirit."

Self denial does not ignore the work of Jesus on the cross.   It embraces it.   The cross is about self denial, about "not my will by Thy will be done."    

Jesus intimately joined self denial with the cross, our taking up our own crosses, and following Him.

By denying oneself one does exactly what the word means -  one loses sight of one's self and one's own interests, just as Jesus did when he accepted the cup the Father gave to him to drink  - "Not my will -  not my interests - not my own desires be done, but THY will be done."

 

• We must understand the difference between denial from a Christian perspective and denial as a religious practice in other world religions. The Bible has much to say about self-denial, but it has a unique purpose in the life of a Christian. Denial is a concept found in virtually every major religion.Various ideas on the practice of self-denial can be found in Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity and other religious and philosophical streams. In most religious practices, like Buddhism, self-denial is a means to achieve an end. Ironically, self-denial is a means of attaining something for oneself – selflessness.

  Some have thought that the Bible teaches something similar, noting as one example Jesus’ words in Matthew 10:39, “Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” Are these concepts similar? Not in the slightest.
  
  Unlike Buddhism and the other major religions of the world, self-denial in Christianity is not a means to an end, nor is it a religious practice. Self-denial is a loving expression of benefit for others, in obedience to God.

• .. The correct path of self-denial is not to deny oneself for ones own benefit; rather it is to deny oneself for Christ. Jesus Christ denied himself that we might have eternal life. How small a thing it is for Him to ask us to sacrifice ourselves for Him and for others considering all that He has already done for us.
• http://www.preachitteachit.org/articles/detail/the-buddhist-error-of-self-denial-what-does-the-bible-teach/

 

(the formatting is strange from this quote)

 

 

People don't like the cross today, they don't like to be told they need to deny themselves and take up their crosses to follow Jesus.  They want an easy road where they don't have to tell themselves "no."   But this is exactly what Jesus told us we must do.

 

And it is for love of Christ we do it, not for love of self.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Qnts2]

8 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

I disagree you are showing what Jesus' words meant.   

You said

• " Self denial ignores Jesus work on the cross, death, resurrection and gift of the Holy Spirit."

Self denial does not ignore the work of Jesus on the cross.   It embraces it.   The cross is about self denial, about "not my will by Thy will be done."    

Jesus intimately joined self denial with the cross, our taking up our own crosses, and following Him.

By denying oneself one does exactly what the word means -  one loses sight of one's self and one's own interests, just as Jesus did when he accepted the cup the Father gave to him to drink  - "Not my will -  not my interests - not my own desires be done, but THY will be done."

 

People don't like the cross today, they don't like to be told they need to deny themselves and take up their crosses to follow Jesus.  They want an easy road where they don't have to tell themselves "no."   But this is exactly what Jesus told us we must do.

 

 

The cross is not about self denial. The cross is about salvation.

When a person accepts Jesus as their Messiah and Lord, they are born again. Made into new creations. The old man dies. Born again Christians were crucified with Jesus.

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Christianity is not about self denial.

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

Christianity is not about self indulgence, but it is also not about self denial. Self denial puts the thoughts on self.

How can self-denial put someone's thoughts on himself?  A person denies himself by giving Christ and others a higher priority, and that is precisely what Scripture teaches. Paul denied himself daily and gave himself totally to the Gospel and the welfare of the churches under his care.

As for "soaking", a good dose of sunshine is recommended as frequently as possible.  So everyone soak up the sunlight.

[thereselittleflower]

9 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

The cross is not about self denial. The cross is about salvation.

When a person accepts Jesus as their Messiah and Lord, they are born again. Made into new creations. The old man dies. Born again Christians were crucified with Jesus.

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Christianity is not about self denial.

I'm sorry, but this is not the Gospel Jesus preached.

Even though we are born again, made into new creatures, we still have the old habits, old ways of thinking, lusts and passions we must deal with, that still must be put to death.  They do not magically disappear.   We must continually put to death our passions.

Speaking to believers, those who have been born again, who have been made into new creations, whose old man has died, who have been crucified with Jesus, Paul commands:

 

• Colossians 3:5  Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

 

"Put to death" means

• εκρόω nekróō, nek-ro'-o; from G3498; to deaden, i.e. (figuratively) to subdue:—be dead, mortify.

• to make dead, to put to death, slay

• worn out

  1. of an impotent old man

• to deprive of power, destroy the strength of

 

And so we must deny ourselves, take up our crosses and follow Him as Jesus commanded, or we cannot be His disciples.

We cannot follow Him unless we first take up our cross.

We cannot take up our cross unless we first deny ourselves.

 

 

[Qnts2]

Just now, Ezra said:

How can self-denial put someone's thoughts on himself?  A person denies himself by giving Christ and others a higher priority, and that is precisely what Scripture teaches. Paul denied himself daily and gave himself totally to the Gospel and the welfare of the churches under his care.

Self denial is about self. Christianity is about being a new creation which means new desires. It is not something that we do. The new desire gives Jesus a higher priority. It does not come by denying self, but by becoming new by the work of Jesus.

In religion, a person wants to act as they suppose they should. It is by works, which usually include self denial. Self denial would be denying the old nature, or the old man, to do what a person believes God requires of them. In Christianity, a person is a new creation. The old man is dead. Desires have changed.

Now, if a person is called into a ministry, like Paul, the desire is based on the ministry. Paul cared deeply for the churches/assemblies and desired that they grow into the fullness of Jesus. It is that God given desire which drove Paul. Is it self denial, to go after a God given desire? Well, given a choice between say sleep, and doing what a person desires (given by God), sleep comes second.   

 

[thereselittleflower]

2 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Self denial is about self. Christianity is about being a new creation which means new desires. It is not something that we do. The new desire gives Jesus a higher priority. It does not come by denying self, but by becoming new by the work of Jesus.

In religion, a person wants to act as they suppose they should. It is by works, which usually include self denial. Self denial would be denying the old nature, or the old man, to do what a person believes God requires of them. In Christianity, a person is a new creation. The old man is dead. Desires have changed.

Now, if a person is called into a ministry, like Paul, the desire is based on the ministry. Paul cared deeply for the churches/assemblies and desired that they grow into the fullness of Jesus. It is that God given desire which drove Paul. Is it self denial, to go after a God given desire? Well, given a choice between say sleep, and doing what a person desires (given by God), sleep comes second.   

 

You have simply confused Chrsitian self denial with Buddist self denial and Hindu self denial and Muslim self denial.

 

You have made the error of assuming they mean the same thing.

 

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

I general, what I worry about when christians embrace the idea they don't need to worry about self denial, is it usually means there is something in their lives God wants them to give up they don't want to give up, and so they seek to justify their behavior by denying this Christian teaching and absolving themselves of responsibility for it - the Holy Spirit will take care of it  later.   For example, they might not be married and are living with someone and don't want to give up premarital sex, or masturbation, gambling, drinking, or some other improper indulgence of their passions.   This is a dangerous path to tread.

 

[Qnts2]

13 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

I'm sorry, but this is not the Gospel Jesus preached.

Even though we are born again, made into new creatures, we still have the old habits, old ways of thinking, lusts and passions we must deal with, that still must be put to death.  They do not magically disappear.   We must continually put to death our passions.

Speaking to believers, those who have been born again, who have been made into new creations, whose old man has died, who have been crucified with Jesus, Paul commands:

 

• Colossians 3:5  Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

 

"Put to death" means

• εκρόω nekróō, nek-ro'-o; from G3498; to deaden, i.e. (figuratively) to subdue:—be dead, mortify.

• to make dead, to put to death, slay

• worn out

  1. of an impotent old man

• to deprive of power, destroy the strength of

 

And so we must deny ourselves, take up our crosses and follow Him as Jesus commanded, or we cannot be His disciples.

We cannot follow Him unless we first take up our cross.

We cannot take up our cross unless we first deny ourselves.

 

 

Ok, so you believe that a person must be engaged in self denial, or they can not be His disciples?

Do you believe if a person does not believe in self denial, they are not saved as all saved people are His disciples?