Israel's 1st gathering of 1948

[Serving]

14 hours ago, Refined said:

• 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. Matthew 7:16-20

There are good guys mixed into every nation, tribe, and tongue.  This is a correct statement.  I agree 100%.

Why do I call a group of people evil, or a nation-state evil?  I look at it's fruit.  By examining the fruit its quite easy to tell that something is over the top, extremely, incredibly, ostentatiously, severely wrong with the nation-state of Israel that so many want to give credit for being God's nation.  Just because someone calls themselves Israel doesn't mean they are the Israel spoken of in scripture.  It's a good ploy to get naive American Christians to back them financially and otherwise, but it doesn't actually make it so.

I'm not upset with anyone here.  I am upset at the lies which have been perpetuated for some time.  I do hope we can keep it civil and avoid making it overly personal while discussing this matter as adults.

If those in political power in Israel want to follow the Torah and call themselves Jews, I support that in every way.  The Torah would tell them:

• 19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. - Deuteronomy 10:19
• 21 "You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. 22 You shall not mistreat any widow or fatherless child. 23 If you do mistreat them, and they cry out to me, I will surely hear their cry, - Exodus 22:21-23

And yet there are millions of people who have a legitimate claim to land inside of Israel who are oppressed and confined to standards of living that are beyond unacceptable.  How Palestinians are treated in Israel says incredible things about what are in the hearts of those running the country.  Using proof text arguments about bloodlines and how the descendants of so and so deserve what they get because it's biblical prophesy is a bunch of garbage as well.

Here is the whole of the law:

• 27 And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself." - Luke 10:27

The modern nation state of Israel fails this in all regards.  There are believers in Israel who do not fail this, they are the true Israel of God, born from above, and my brothers and sisters.  It's for their sakes and others I say these things.  Modern Israel is not a beacon on a hill shining light upon the Savior, it is at best salt that has lost it's saltiness.  I'm not convinced it was ever salt in the first place... but that's a different story.

Have you heard of the Deir Yassin Massacre.  Key word there being Massacre.

Blessings,

Travis

I agree with William on this Refined .. though the leaders of every nation are compromised, to put it nicely, since God said that ALL the worlds leaders are "folden together like THORNS", we should not lose sight of the powerless populations that indeed consist of "good" & bad .. don't forget, even Christ deniers have been GIVEN a CONSCIENCE which will be used like a "judge" against themselves .. and that is N T teachings too bro.

Israel are NOT all evil, even though they reject Christ nationally speaking .. but look at "our" leaders too .. does that make you & me "bad" too?

No.

Don't forget this one MAIN thing .. God has blinded Israel UNTIL the times of the Gentiles are FULFILLED .. "blind UNTIL" .. see, God is still working His plan even amongst non Christ believing Israel.

I think you are more concerned/annoyed at the MAJORITY of Christians who do NOT understand what dynamics are taking place between God and unbelieving Israel of today, which naïve group is just as blind as unbelieving Israel on MANY matters .. and THAT I can and do understand.

Serving.

[Serving]

10 hours ago, tigger398 said:

So if the jewish people came into the land in 1948. Why do people say that there going back to the land as prophecy when it already did in 1948. I'm still confused in that.

Because one gathering (1948) is of a rebellious (Christ rejecting) house where only a 1/3 part of THAT group will be given mercy AFTER Christ returns, meaning that THEY are not of that "Christian" group gathered in the air to Christ and changed to spirit but are instead flesh .. these will be amongst ALL of Israel when God gathers the 2nd gathering who joins those survivors already in Israel .. then together they ALL MOURN for Him that they (their brethren) PIERCED (when they find out that Jesus is LORD and the others realise that THEIR BRETHREN killed the Christ) .. and they will bear their (inner) SHAME for a time, as it were, yet they are to be forgiven, since GOD has blinded Israel after all .. blinded UNTIL the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

And the other gathering, the 2nd gathering occurs AFTER Christ returns and that group are all those "good figs" from ALL past generations otherwise known as the REMNANTS of each generation who are brought back to life in the flesh for GOOD, to be taught of Christ with the resurrected spirit saints overseeing them DURING the millennium .. hence the resurrected saints being KINGS and PRIESTS in the restored kingdom.

You see, the resurrected saints by then HAVE overcome & INHERITED ETERNITY THROUGH Christ .. they are the SPIRITUAL PRINCIPALITIES during the millennium .. Flesh Israel then by default become the HUMAN principalities during the millennium .. and they have NOT yet OVERCOME at that point, but are in the PROCESS of overcoming during that time .. kinda like we are in that process today.

Because NO MAN is resurrected into SPIRIT unless he has that Spirit of CHRIST in Him as Romans declares, and that same Spirit GROWS within the believer as he GROWS in Spirit during his/her life .. it is not just given and that's that, it must be GROWN with our own spirit an the two become ONE over time, just like today.

[Serving]

On Friday, 19 February 2016 at 10:35 PM, WilliamL said:

God cares.

Rom. 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. ... 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

...26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

EXACTLY .. this GROUP REJECTS CHRIST (enemies for OUR sake, meaning PRACTICING enemies of CHRISTIANS spiritually speaking) yet we see another ELECTION is at work even amongst THEM as opposed to the "Christian" election .. Praise the Lord.

Serving.

[WilliamL]

12 hours ago, Refined said:

 I think it is commonly understood that history is written by the victors.  It does not benefit the modern state called Israel to have bad publicity, so often relevant details are conveniently passed over.  Here is a good overview of that day, and lots more details for anyone who is keen on searching things out...

 A 1987 study undertaken by Birzeit University'sCenter for Research and Documentation of Palestinian Society found "the numbers of those killed does not exceed 120". ...

So you quote a study by a Palestinian University as a more reliable source for your information than wiki?

In war, there are always atrocities. The U.S Air Force recently bombed a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Afghanistan. Such isolated incidents happen in every war. But you want to paint the whole Jewish State as somehow derived from one battle, in a brutal war that the Jews did not start, and in which they were attacked not only by the Palestinians, but by five Arab nations. These included Trans-Jordan, whose British-led and trained and armed troops were led by British officers. You have demonstrated a clear anti-Israel, anti-Jewish, and pro-Palestinian bias.

What you and people like you totally refuse to acknowledge is that, without Divine assistance, no ill-equipped and lightly-populated proto-nation like the Israelis had in 1947 would have ever survived the onslaught of 5 better armed larger nation-states.

Edited February 22, 2016 by WilliamL

[simplejeff]

Genesis 12:3Amplified Bible (AMP)

3 

And I will bless (do good for, benefit) those who bless you,
And I will curse [that is, subject to My wrath and judgment] the one who curses (despises, dishonors, has contempt for) you.
And in you all the families (nations) of the earth will be blessed.”

Amplified Bible (AMP)

Copyright © 2015 by The Lockman Foundation, La Habra, CA 90631. All rights reserved.

 

This is ALWAYS TRUE.

Yahweh NEVER changed this.

2 minutes ago, Davida said:

Serving,  your post on this subject seems unbalanced and what seems absent is the ever present eternal Love of GOD Almighty for the Jews and Israel. Is there an Anti-Semitic tone here?  I hope this is not true because what I have come to understand is GOD is faithful and LOVES whom HE has chosen. GOD LOVES and blesses the Jewish people and Watches over and Protects ISRAEL. His eyes are always upon Israel.

It is Satan that continuously is seeking to destroy the Jews and Israel and the Christians for that matter.

Psalm 121

" I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

² My help cometh from the Lord, which made heaven and earth.

³ He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.

⁴ Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.

⁵ The Lord is thy keeper: the Lord is thy shade upon thy right hand.

⁶ The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.

⁷ The Lord shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

⁸ The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore. "Amen

 

Yes Davida, except hasatan while seeking to destroy the Jews and Yahweh's WORD,

loves using 'christendom' to accomplish that purpose when Yahweh permits it,

and many times that has been done.

Yahweh always keeps for Himself a Remnant, both Jews and gentiles, for His Own Purpose and Testimony.

[Ezra]

20 hours ago, tigger398 said:

So if the jewish people came into the land in 1948. Why do people say that there going back to the land as prophecy when it already did in 1948. I'm still confused in that.

The prophecies pertaining to Jews from around the world being brought back to the land of Israel by God are connected with the Second Coming of Christ. 

[tigger398]

55 minutes ago, Ezra said:

The prophecies pertaining to Jews from around the world being brought back to the land of Israel by God are connected with the Second Coming of Christ. 

Then what is 1948 prophecy. The jewish came back to Israel after hitler. Does the bible say they will come back twice.

[Ezra]

12 minutes ago, tigger398 said:

Then what is 1948 prophecy. The jewish came back to Israel after hitler. Does the bible say they will come back twice.

Zephaniah 2:1,2 could have a double application in that it was addressed to Israel before the judgment of Judah (when the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem), and also to those who would gather themselves together (which began with the Zionist Movement) and establish the nation of Israel in 1948..

[tigger398]

49 minutes ago, tigger398 said:

 

Ok so all the jewish people come back. So in 1948 they were still scatter now there all coming back. So that is a end time event.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Davida said:

Serving,  your post on this subject seems unbalanced and what seems absent is the ever present eternal Love of GOD Almighty for the Jews and Israel. Is there an Anti-Semitic tone here?  I hope this is not true because what I have come to understand is GOD is faithful and LOVES whom HE has chosen. GOD LOVES and blesses the Jewish people and Watches over and Protects ISRAEL. His eyes are always upon Israel.

It is Satan that continuously is seeking to destroy the Jews and Israel and the Christians for that matter.

Psalm 121

" I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

² My help cometh from the Lord, which made heaven and earth.

³ He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.

⁴ Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.

⁵ The Lord is thy keeper: the Lord is thy shade upon thy right hand.

⁶ The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.

⁷ The Lord shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

⁸ The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore. "Amen

 

I agree with part of what you say, Israel is loved for the sake of the fathers as has always been the case. God never abolished the promises made to Abraham concerning them. However some speculation here on some biblical truths.

 Considering that Paul said

Ro 2:12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Unbelieving Jews are subject to the Judgement of the law, Gentiles are judged apart from the law.

The law of Moses containes prophecies concerning God's punishment for the Children of Israel/Abraham

On prophetic utterance is spoken of as a series of punishments, with reprieves in between to wait for repentance. If not he would punish them seven times more for their sins. This prophecy of Moses law, appears to be an escalation of punishment as a refusal to repent.

Can we read the prophets apart from the law of Moses here? Or must all punishment of sin we see in the prophets concerning Israel align itself with the prophetic utterance of Moses in the law?

Mt 11:13  For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

The wrath of God was coming.....Christ the way of escape

Mt 3:7  But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Lu 3:7  Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
 

The wrath we read of concerning Israel already began 2000 years ago. It is merely a continuation until Christ returns. But it is judgement of Moses law, and I wonder at the reading of the prophets apart from that Judgement.