would we be vegetarians ,if the flood did not Happen ?or before the fall? in the garden?

[simplejeff]

Oh, it's even more simple than that, and of course , in this day and age,

harder to find anyone who knows..... seems like instead of living stones , 

churches are full of stumbling blocks ... ((as written in the new testament)).

----------------------------------------

But your post begs a TOTALLY SEPARATE question,  WHERE is it ever written to not serve pork ? ((anywhere OT or NT))

 

[Ezra]

4 hours ago, simplejeff said:

But your post begs a TOTALLY SEPARATE question,  WHERE is it ever written to not serve pork ? ((anywhere OT or NT))

What is written INCLUDES pork, bacon, and ham.

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.  But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. (Romans 14:14,15).

[simplejeff]

So ?  There's NOTHING there about SERVING pork or bacon or ham . There's no mention of SERVING PORK , BACON or HAM that I've ever seen, or you've ever shown.

Also, there's NOTHING there in your post indicating from Scripture the answer to >

WHAT DID the APOSTLE(S) DO

ON PURPOSE SPECIFICALLY   so they would not be a stumbling block ? ((that's almost exactly how he puts it , in english anyway))

 

 

[SINNERSAVED]

11 minutes ago, Ezra said:

What is written INCLUDES pork, bacon, and ham.

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.  But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. (Romans 14:14,15).

 

can I ask a simple question, Ezra, was pork or swine, , even considered to be a animal for food ?

 according to God, is this a fair statement, ?

 the second question to this is , I believe that muslims,  and jews, do not eat pork, is that true ? and what would be the real reason for this ?

its just a question, I could use help on, to understand , scripture much better , ?

 thank you

[Ezra]

25 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

So ?  There's NOTHING there about SERVING pork or bacon or ham . 

Simple Jeff, you've got to be kidding. You could not find the word "serving" in Scripture, therefore it invalidates the meaning? What else, do you need "Served on a platter", "Baked at 350 degrees" "Carved by an expert?"?

[Ezra]

34 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

its just a question, I could use help on, to understand , scripture much better , ?

Why would the people of the Gadarenes have a herd of swine if they were not being raised for food?  Why did the Prodigal Son eat the food of swine if they were not being raised for food?

If pork bothers you, let your host know that you don't eat pork (just like the Jews and Muslims).  Paul tells the Christian host not to serve pork to someone like yourself.

Paul tells us that vegetarians are actually weak in the faith (Rom 14:1,2).

[SINNERSAVED]

2 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Why would the people of the Gadarenes have a herd of swine if they were not being raised for food?  Why did the Prodigal Son eat the food of swine if they were not being raised for food?

If pork bothers you, let your host know that you don't eat pork (just like the Jews and Muslims).  Paul tells the Christian host to not serve pork to someone like yourself.

that's a great question then why raise pigs, .?

may be it be used to make money, for the alien or gentiles, ate pigs,  and so there was  a way to make a living or money by raising them and selling them , would that be a good answer ?

second it is not the pork that bothers me, ,but that many have overlooked, in Gods word, what is in scripture, the reason, why pork, was a instruction of God as a unclean animal, but yet, did not say anywhere , or did not ever validate it, to be a source of food,!!  to His people,

but gave instruction in what not to eat !, but if we want truth , and I am all about truth , if I can be honest, and respectful,

 if we assumed that pork is okay , and we eat it, knowing that God has declared it to be unclean,  and never placed as a source of animal to be eaten ? then why would we end up offending another brother or sister by doing this, serving, pork,

 for to be of sound mind, if God is the same yesterday as He is today , and the same tomorrow, and we are all of the nation of the righteous and just , and HOLY God ? then why would we look for ways and covenants to avoid, and to justify this  to be accepted, at any cost, and say God went back on His word, if we are saying that, then we are calling God a liar, and there is no total truth to His word, and that He goes back on His word when ever He wants and so , its okay for all food is okay to eat if we give thanks,

 and so , I want to make sure, if I am wrong, on this, that you tell me how I have not told the truth ,?

 or we can go back to the thread about eating pork, and start it all back up, I believe it is very important to me , with no disrespect to others , but, I need to know how we as believers in the word of God can say god said this, but today , its not valid, ?

so I would like to get any advise to this question, and my view, for I love God,i am not bringing anything in to the mix that is new, but what is  ibelieve to be , a false teaching if we believe it is okay, and God is okay going back on His word ,? curious minds like me just want to learn the truth , thank you Ezra, blessings  and peace to you

 

[simplejeff]

This is about what and who Yahweh calls stumbling blocks IN the NT , not about pork. (( I think I mentioned it's not about pork earlier.  If not, I am now.))

You get and understand what others say, but are missing Yahweh's WORD to and through JESUS and Paul in Scripture.

((no where in the NT does Jesus or Paul EVER refer to giving, serving , providing pork or bacon or ham to someone else.))

Even the Prodigal Son Will Be a Good Example soon.  Possibly. Not there yet.

Let's try this > suppose you saw a pastor having a lurid relationship with a hooker over a few months time.

No doubt about it - he and she shacking up every week for a roll in the hay.

Is THAT/ HE not a stumbling block for not just his own congregation, 

but for anyone with Faith in Jesus who sees him do this ? 

Wouldn't EVERYONE call THAT a stumbling block, a sin, even worse than a stumbling block perhaps ? 

Will that pastor receive righteous JUDGMENT from THE JUDGE for being a stumbling block ? 

[simplejeff]

32 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Paul tells us that vegetarians are actually weak in the faith (Rom 14:1,2).

THERE YOU GO !  GOOD !  TRUE ! 

Now, does Yahweh, Jesus, or Paul 

ever, anywhere IN SCRIPTURE,

BLESS someone who is weak in the faith ? 

OR Curse them ? ((NO! of course not))

So, then, should you / we/ all of God's people  BLESS, and not Curse them ? 

((YES!  OF COURSE YES, ALWAYS ))

........

...

..

Now, that's out of the way - ((hold that thought))

back to "Is a pastor who commits sin" as mentioned previously 

A Stumbling Block to those in the faith ((NOT just the weak possiblly)).?

OR NOT A Stumbling Block to those in the faith ?

[SINNERSAVED]

that was really good jeff,

 and so as I said, when it comes to scripture, if it be symbolic or literal , it is not about what I want, or what I say , but what God is saying, if we don't want to be stumbling around in the dark for we fulfill the flesh, and justify or compromise, and use our smarts and intellect to be like shady lawers to beat around a truth to win a selfish argument, and justify it, by fast talking and assumptions, then we have deceived our selves and others around us to believe a lie,

 so lets talk truth , for the Jesus in the bible is  I AM, from the beginning, so He would be present when giving or he be the one giving the instructions, and teaching to up hold the [prophets and the law of God, to the standard of following God, and making our selves to be Holy in all that we are and in all that we do ?

 for if I am a Christian, as a example, sitting in a bar having a few beers, and another brother says hey you are not suppose to be drinking, and you say well , jesus turned water into wine, so I can drink all I want , and it does not say I cannot have beer,

 and then next you get the scripture that says, you can drink but do not be drunk ?

 and then you look at this and say, where did this edify any one, nor did it show any honor to God and your witness to others around you, for if you want to be in the world and indulge , then who are you serving, and what God do you follow ?

 so I believe today their is a major disconnect in our behavior, and our liberal ways of saying okay to the things we should not and not saying the things we should ?

 because after a couple of drinks  I believe it will be a whole different story and we have given our selves over to the world to drag Gods word and people through the mud again, and then all that sees this says ,is this what people do when they follow there God,

 I have shamed the word of God and all that He stands for by calling my self a believer and to act like a foolish person,

thank you I hope this makes it clear,