pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[Sister]

Quote

If the entire Church (the Body of Christ) was to be beheaded and martyred during the time of the Antichrist, it would certainly be noted somewhere in the New Testament. 

Ezra

It is noted in the New Testament.  You have just missed it.

Revelation 12:17   And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

  Revelation 14:9   And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

  Revelation 14:10   The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

  Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

  Revelation 14:12   Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

  Revelation 14:13   And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

The saints die in the Lord AFTER the MARK OF THE BEAST is out.  The dead are "blessed", because they resisted the Mark of the Beast for Christ's sake. This is the "patience of the saints", they know what they are doing by refusing, even if it costs them their lives.  It's all for Christ and to stay loyal to the end....they don't give in to pressure.

Not ALL will be killed, but the many.  The remainder will probably be spared in jail and used as slave labour, because there has to be some alive at the coming.

 

 

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth:

Did you notice "from henceforth"?  That indicates that the ones who died in the Lord prior to the "henceforth" are with HIm (as attested by other Scriptures), and that this is a different group of saints.

[Last Daze]

8 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

stop teaching what is not biblical,  !!

matthew 24 , Jesus said they will hate you for they hated me , you will have tribulation, and persecution, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world , and they will kill you for my name sake, so there is tribulation , being filled with the holy spirit , does not give you a pass not to be hurt, suffer or anything like that,  false teaching is not allowed, ?

 how did the apostles die then ,and Beaten, and they were all filled ,with the holy spirit , ?

what about our brothers and sisters in the lord, attacked by isis , and others hating the Christians,  was they not filled with the holy spirit , ? you need to apologize, or take back what you said, it is in the bible scriptures, that we will suffer,  and if you say they don't , then are you really helping to save them when they have to go through  it , will they be prepared,

 we do not give any advise that could cost a person salvation , or turn from God, we are here to love and build up , and assure them , as the bible states, He that endures until the end shall be saved,  period,

Note , Jesus was baptized, and filled with the Holy spirit , and then went to the cross, ? and many more,

the scripture says that they did not love their lives to death ? they gave it for the glory of God ? why are we the salt and the light of the world, if we are not filled with the spirit ??

 , then who is the light filled, saints, and the saints, go through tribulation, in revelation ,it said that the  saints were given over to be over come for 42 months ???? the saints are spirit filled believers,... if I am reading my bible correctly ? thank you

You are reading your Bible correctly.  Some people refuse to discern between tribulation and wrath, who causes it and who's affected, because their view on prophecy relies heavily on confusing the two terms.

What you have stated is true and there is no need to apologize for it.  Those who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.  In this world we will have tribulation.  It's a recurring theme for the believer.  Jesus stated that when the abomination of desolation was set up that it would begin a time of tribulation that would be the most intense that has ever been or will be.  It will be a time of "great tribulation".

We know the great tribulation is not God's wrath because:

• the great tribulation begins when the abomination of desolation is set up.  (Matthew 24:15-21)
• the great tribulation ends when the sixth seal is opened. (Compare Matthew 24:29-30a with Revelation 6:12-17)
• the sixth seal announces the beginning of the time of God's wrath.  (Revelation 6:17)

Consequently, the great tribulation, as defined by scripture, occurs before the time of God's wrath.  It really is that simple.  Some people just don't want  to see it and so they don't.

 

[WilliamL]

8 hours ago, Ezra said:

And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

Out of all the false teaching from the "got questions" passage you quoted, of which Last Daze summarizes the highlights above, is this translation of Dan. 9:27.

The phrase 'abomination that causes desolation,' or 'abomination of desolation,' is not found in Dan. 9:27 in the Hebrew Bible. That phrase comes from late Greek Septuagint manuscripts, from which the NIV and associated versions were derived. On this one single contested -- bogus -- verse from the Greek, the whole phony 70th-week-in-the-End Times doctrine has been constructed. One single thin reed indeed to base a critical doctrine upon.

"In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." The End Times 70th week doctrine fails this test miserably.

[WilliamL]

8 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Paul's hope at the time of his departure was the return of Christ, not being rewarded immediately by going to heaven.

Let's let Paul speak for himself:  

2 Cor. 5:6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Phil. 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart [i.e., to die] and be with Christ, which is far better.

He can't make it any clearer than that: for a Christian, to depart this world due to the death of the physical body causes one "to be with/present with Christ." And Christ is in heaven, as numerous scriptures tell us.

 

[Reinitin]

I'm pretty sure the first time in the bible God told men something was an abomination to Him is when they were using their camp site as a toilet and He didn't appreciate them walking around stepping in their own feces and He let them know If he came and walked around among them He sure wouldn't want to step in it. 

[Montana Marv]

Willaim

10 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

"In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." The End Times 70th week doctrine fails this test miserably.

This will be an ongoing dispute.  Yet Israel and Jerusalem have yet to receive any the benefits promised in the list of 6 of Dan 9:24.  And Prophecy says they will receive these benefits by the end of the 70th Week.  For this 70th Week Prophecy to be fulfilled, they MUST receive those benefits.  They have yet to receive them.  So this 70th Week is yet future.  Really it is very simple.

70 Sevens have been determined/decreed/prophesied for your people and your holy city to 1. finish transgression, 2.  to put an end to sin, 3.  to atone for wickedness, 4.  to bring in everlasting righteousness, 5.  to seal up vision and prophecy, 6.  to anoint the most holy.

So the question is..... When have these (6) been applied to Israel and Jerusalem.  If yes, then where is their everlasting righteousness from the end of the 70th Week.  Why are there still visions and prophecies?

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

Sister

8 hours ago, Sister said:

It is noted in the New Testament.  You have just missed it.

Revelation 12:17   And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The dragon first pursed those Jews who were in Judea (Israel), and those fled into the desert.  The thing is we as the Church are not a remnant of the Woman (Israel).  By faith we are of the seed of Abraham (not Jewish).  The Body of Christ is made up of both Jew and Gentle.  The Body of Christ is to make the Woman (Israel) jealous.

 

8 hours ago, Sister said:

Revelation 14:9   And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

  Revelation 14:10   The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

  Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

And this is a forecast of what is yet to come.  Rev 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur (Fire), where the beast and false prophet had been thrown.  They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.  After the Great White Throne Judgment - Rev 20: 11-14; death and Hades were cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

8 hours ago, Sister said:

Revelation 14:13   And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Yes, as Ezra pointed out; Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth, and their works do follow them.  Now one must consider who are those group of saints who have died from hence past.  Why were they not of the blessed?

Yet we as the Body of Christ are blessed according to (Matt 5: 3-11) and also according to Rev 1:3 - Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take it to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

2 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Willaim

This will be an ongoing dispute.  Yet Israel and Jerusalem have yet to receive any the benefits promised in the list of 6 of Dan 9:24.  And Prophecy says they will receive these benefits by the end of the 70th Week.  For this 70th Week Prophecy to be fulfilled, they MUST receive those benefits.  They have yet to receive them.  So this 70th Week is yet future.  Really it is very simple.

70 Sevens have been determined/decreed/prophesied for your people and your holy city to 1. finish transgression, 2.  to put an end to sin, 3.  to atone for wickedness, 4.  to bring in everlasting righteousness, 5.  to seal up vision and prophecy, 6.  to anoint the most holy.

So the question is..... When have these (6) been applied to Israel and Jerusalem.  If yes, then where is their everlasting righteousness from the end of the 70th Week.  Why are there still visions and prophecies?

This has been answered many times, and you keep on ignoring the answers. To summarize again, in brief:

1. The "transgression/pesha/rebellion/apostasy" was that of the Levitical priesthood, which began under Antiochus Epiphanes (as described in Dan. 8:8-12, and in the Books of the Maccabees), when the office of High Priest began to be bought and sold. Hellenistic practices and teachings began to replace biblical ones in Judea. That apostasy of the priesthood ended with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, at which time the priests lost their base of authority: "Your house is left to you desolate." Matt. 23:38

2, 3, 4. Sins were sealed up, iniquity was atoned for, and everlasting righteousness was brought in by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. How anyone can deny that these basic Christian doctrines of salvation have already been fulfilled is beyond me.

5. Matt. 11:13: “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” Luke 16:16: “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it.” OT prophecy – that of Daniel’s people – ended at John the Baptist. OT prophets had the Holy Spirit “come upon” them. Beginning at John, prophets were “filled with” it. The former phrase is never used by the NT, and the latter never by the OT.

6. The Most Holy One was anointed by the Holy Spirit at his baptism, and later anointed Melchizedek High Priest of the heavenly sanctuary when he ascended to heaven.

All 6 of these prophesies were thus fulfilled by no later than 70 AD.

 

[Montana Marv]

3 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

This has been answered many times, and you keep on ignoring the answers. To summarize again, in brief:

1. The "transgression/pesha/rebellion/apostasy" was that of the Levitical priesthood, which began under Antiochus Epiphanes (as described in Dan. 8:8-12, and in the Books of the Maccabees), when the office of High Priest began to be bought and sold. Hellenistic practices and teachings began to replace biblical ones in Judea. That apostasy of the priesthood ended with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, at which time the priests lost their base of authority: "Your house is left to you desolate." Matt. 23:38

2, 3, 4. Sins were sealed up, iniquity was atoned for, and everlasting righteousness was brought in by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. How anyone can deny that these basic Christian doctrines of salvation have already been fulfilled is beyond me.

5. Matt. 11:13: “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” Luke 16:16: “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it.” OT prophecy – that of Daniel’s people – ended at John the Baptist. OT prophets had the Holy Spirit “come upon” them. Beginning at John, prophets were “filled with” it. The former phrase is never used by the NT, and the latter never by the OT.

6. The Most Holy One was anointed by the Holy Spirit at his baptism, and later anointed Melchizedek High Priest of the heavenly sanctuary when he ascended to heaven.

All 6 of these prophesies were thus fulfilled by no later than 70 AD.

 

If these were fulfilled no later than 70 AD, why then was Israel taken into captivity by Rome.  Was this everlasting righteousness.

Some of your points are well taken.  But when has All Israel Accepted their Messiah?  For this is what Daniel 9:24 is all about, their acceptance of the Messiah.  When Israel and Jerusalem accepts Jesus Christ (our Lord and Savior) as their Jesus Christ and their Lord and Savior (Their Messiah):  Then Daniel 9:24 will become fulfilled.  and the 70th Week prophecy is fulfilled.

In Christ

Montana Marv