Guest shiloh357 Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Spock said: Well, I now know Justin Martyr and Ignatius better, but, please don't take this wrong- I follow the Lord, listen to Paul, John, isiah and all the boys who wrote the Bible, and of course JESUS FIRST AND FOREMOST. He never told me to do away with the 4th C. So for me, I'm not. If you want to, you won't hurt my feelings and I'm not trying to bully you to stop working on the Sabbath. That is between you and the Lord, right? I think a point that is being missed is that Sabbath apologists always argue that Christians observed the Sabbath until 325 AD when Constantine changed it and Christians started observing Sunday instead. But the historical value of Justin Martyr and Ignatius is that they show the early church had started worshiping on Sunday early in the 2nd century almost 200 years prior to Constantine and Nicea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 6 hours ago, Giller said: Yes it is true that the original sabbath was on the 7th day, but now we are under a new covenant, with better promises, and every thing , after a certain manner has changed. Col 2:14-16 (14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. (16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which hand written ordinances did he took out of the way, nailing it to the cross? Well it says let no man therefore; the word therefore is referring to what was previously mentioned before, which is the hand written ordinances, and as a result of the hand written ordinances being nailed to the cross, let no man therefore judge you in meat ordinances (clean , unclean meats), drink ordinances (Nazarite vow), an holy day (God's old testament holy days, which were part of the hand written ordinances given to Moses), or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days plural. It says sabbath days plural, and not sabbath day singular, which refers to the days they held their Sabbaths on, under old covenant times which they had the original 7th day sabbath, but also they had 7 extra Sabbaths, which were the day of Atonement, the 1rst day of the feast of Unleavened bread, the last day of Unleavened bread, Pentecost, Feast of trumpets, Feats of tabernacles, Last day of feast of tabernacles. Why were these handwritten ordinances against them? Not because they were wrong, but because they could not save any one. I believe that under the new covenant, we have a complete, spiritual ,physical, and soulish rest in Christ Jesus, but also a day of rest, under another day. And this day could not be part of the hand written ordinances of Moses, because it never existed back then, but only existed at the time of the day of Pentecost , in the book of Acts. Hebrews 4:8-9 (8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.) Now the word rest, in verse 9, means this: (Strong’s concordance) (G4520 σαββατισμός sabbatismos sab-bat-is-mos' From a derivative of G4521; a “sabbatism”, that is, (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven): - rest. Total KJV occurrences: 1) Now it mentions that the word sabbatismos is a derivative of G4521, what is G4521? (Strong’s concordance) (G4521 σάββατον sabbaton sab'-bat-on Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week. Total KJV occurrences: 68) Hebrews 4:8 (8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.) Jesus while alive, surely gave rest to the people, in some form, but could not give permanent rest, until he died on the cross, was resurrected on the first day , and ascended to the right hand of the Father, therefore, sending back the Holy Ghost. And Jesus did speak of another day, wherein he would send back the Comforter. And this other day, was none other than the first day of the week, which is when the Holy Ghost was sent down to men to indwell them. So it mentions a day here, another day, wherein rest would be established, that is rest through the Holy Ghost. Isaiah 28:11-12 (11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.) It mentions these other tongues as being some type of rest, and that is what they experienced on the day of Pentecost. Acts 2:4 (4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.) So we see that Jesus (John 14:26,John 16:7) mentioned another day, but also, is it mentioning this other day, for the sake of having a Sabbath rest, as well? Hebrews 4:9 (9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.) I believe that there remaineth a spiritual rest, but also a physical rest through a day of rest, under the New covenant, which the book of Isaiah shows in a certain scripture which I have not covered here. And the word remaineth refers to something that was in the past, that now is, but in a greater way. Under the old they had some type of rest through the victories of Joshua, and a day rest, well is it the same today? Just a complete rest in Christ, and a day of rest? Amen Giller,you and I are on the same page,Jesus is our rest .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Spock said: Thanks for that, but you do keep the other 9 right? you do keep the other 9, right? If not, which of the other 9 commandments do you not follow? If you really love God with all your heart and soul, and love your neighbor as itself which of the other nine would you break. Which of the ten tells you to love your enemies or the feed the helpless. Other than a dozen or so special people in special circumstances who had the Holy Spirit in them. Who among the Hebrews could please God without sacrifices. Who in the Scripture I spoke of was sent to hell for breaking one of the ten..... I am covered by the riteousness of my Savior, Jesus, not my own; though I am expected to do my best to lead a holy life. And it is that rest in Jesus that is now the Sabbath for born again Christians. We don't need a day to stop and reflect on God, for we have him with in us all the time. He should be involved in everything you do, and say. He should be a part of every decision one makes, even the little ones and we should be open for his direction every day. As for rest, I rest in Jesus my whole life now. Every single day I remember God's work done on the seventh day, for he finished his work in me and if you accept it you a couple of thousand years ago. If you personally still want to keep any day special that is OK, but what is not ok is for any of us to make it manditory....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, shiloh357 said: I think a point that is being missed is that Sabbath apologists always argue that Christians observed the Sabbath until 325 AD when Constantine changed it and Christians started observing Sunday instead. But the historical value of Justin Martyr and Ignatius is that they show the early church had started worshiping on Sunday early in the 2nd century almost 200 years prior to Constantine and Nicea. Good point Shiloh. It is now noted, for me at least, that 325 wasn't the first date believers worshipped on Sun-day. (Think worship of the Sun God.) Edited April 9, 2017 by Spock Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 Hey Giller, Is it possible that the Colossians, who I believe were mostly Gentiles, were "hanging out" on the Sabbath Day, and this was causing some people to be upset about this? They thought they were maybe being too Jewish, because after all, they were Christians? Is that interpretation possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, other one said: If you really love God with all your heart and soul, and love your neighbor as itself which of the other nine would you break. Which of the ten tells you to love your enemies or the feed the helpless. Other than a dozen or so special people in special circumstances who had the Holy Spirit in them. Who among the Hebrews could please God without sacrifices. Who in the Scripture I spoke of was sent to hell for breaking one of the ten..... I am covered by the riteousness of my Savior, Jesus, not my own; though I am expected to do my best to lead a holy life. And it is that rest in Jesus that is now the Sabbath for born again Christians. We don't need a day to stop and reflect on God, for we have him with in us all the time. He should be involved in everything you do, and say. He should be a part of every decision one makes, even the little ones and we should be open for his direction every day. As for rest, I rest in Jesus my whole life now. Every single day I remember God's work done on the seventh day, for he finished his work in me and if you accept it you a couple of thousand years ago. If you personally still want to keep any day special that is OK, but what is not ok is for any of us to make it manditory....... Just to be clear, I'm not making a no work day mandatory for you. I've made it mandatory for me! And I'm telling you why I've made it mandatory for me. Just like I won't make it mandatory for you to not cheat on your taxes when you file them. Again, that is mandatory for me, you have to do what you have to do. Lol We both love God, want to please him, and have the Holy Spirit and the Bible guiding us. I listen to your arguments for "go work on Sabbath" and you listen to my arguments for "no work, rest" on Sabbath and we decide. Beautiful fellowship! Ahhhhhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Giller said: Now I do not think it has anything to do with it, but rather it has to do with, it being a new covenant. Now the feast days will be reinstated during the millennial reign, but until then, we just simply have life in Jesus Christ, who became the passover, day of atonement etc, in a living way, the feast days were shadows, Jesus, was the reality of those shadows. I'm glad you recognize the Feast Days and SABBATH will be "reinstated" in the Millenial, but some of believe these days have not been put on the shelf in the present. As to the Colossians 2 passage, I can see this argument both ways, therefore each one of us has to find out for YOURSELF and be at peace when a decision is made. It sounds like you are equally at peace excluding the 4th C as I am at peace following it. Edited April 9, 2017 by Spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 58 minutes ago, Spock said: Just to be clear, I'm not making a no work day mandatory for you. I've made it mandatory for me! And I'm telling you why I've made it mandatory for me. Just like I won't make it mandatory for you to not cheat on your taxes when you file them. Again, that is mandatory for me, you have to do what you have to do. Lol We both love God, want to please him, and have the Holy Spirit and the Bible guiding us. I listen to your arguments for "go work on Sabbath" and you listen to my arguments for "no work, rest" on Sabbath and we decide. Beautiful fellowship! Ahhhhhhhh By the way you post it is very difficult to see that you are not pushing others to observe the sabbath, especially that no one is telling you that there is anything wrong with you observing the sabbath. You have been doing so for a very long time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, other one said: By the way you post it is very difficult to see that you are not pushing others to observe the sabbath, especially that no one is telling you that there is anything wrong with you observing the sabbath. You have been doing so for a very long time now. Really! I'm surprised by this. I believe my only purpose is to add that balance by way of scripture as to why some people do rest on the Sabbath day, even knowing in Christ we have a complete rest on a spiritual basis. After all, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Even God rested on the 7th day, right? Don't you see this as being more than a spiritual rest? A rest from DOING. For me, it is very practical- resting on Saturday, and I don't even do household chores, but rest from work, and then we choose to add meeting with other similar believers, reading, prayer, family, fun, etc is a very renewing thing for us. We see it's benefit. "The Sabbath is meant for man!" So, I don't think I'm being a bully to share both scripture and my testimony of how I see the both the validity and value of following the 4th C just as written from the hand of Moses. And you know I have said numerous times- "you have to follow your own consciences...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 As long as you make it clear through the discussion that it is your conscious you are speaking of, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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