SINNERSAVED Posted April 5, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, WilliamL said: Make that in 168 BC when Antiochus "placed the abomination of desolation." Dan. 11:31 No abomination of desolation was set up in 70 AD "in the Holy Place," as is required by Matt. 24:15 and Daniel 12:11, but not by Daniel 9:27. The latter passage only speaks about "desolating abominations" (plural), which were committed by both Romans attackers and Jewish defenders in 70 AD. And again, please note, the Holy Place means the site of the Sanctuary, but it does not necessarily mean the Sanctuary. If that site is in the old City of David now being excavated, it may become available soon. thank you William, I know you have this down, and more equip in this area then me, but I have pieces that I know go together, and we can clear the statement and the what people are watching for, , I believe that in the visions of Daniel were to be of sight of the past and of the future, and it is easy to overlap , if we are not careful in how we separate for past and future , and then we can see what is taken place, that is no longer, a issue today , thank you again for your help, and spock, thank you for your response also , blessing to you both brothers I am going to start another thread just for this topic, and we can put all of our findings on it, and that will be a new slate, okay thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted April 5, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2016 13 hours ago, Esther4:14 said: I agree with everything except the last part. I think people continue defending their point to the death because they lack the humility to step away, not because of their capacity to defend their position. At a certain point you just have to let them have their last word prize otherwise they will never stop harassing you. But, for me, even when I feel I could continue, I will often stop when things are clearly unfruitful and manipulated by motives that do not pertain to the discussion. So, I guess I don't agree that some discussion continue because the party actually has the ability to defend their position. I think they think having the last word is like scoring a point in the eyes of the audience. Good observation. It can be challenging at times to look at things objectively, present the scriptures that support your view, clarify, and leave it to the Holy Spirit to do His work. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies. 1 Corinthians 8:1b We need knowledge but we need to avoid the arrogance that comes with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted April 11, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 907 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,650 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,833 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2016 The thing that aligns the three major camps on eschatology is correctly dividing the 70th Week of Daniel not as one seven-year tribulation but as two 3.5-year tribulations. The believer's tribulation first then the Great Tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted April 11, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 907 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,650 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,833 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2016 The rapture takes place PRE Great Tribulation, MID 70th Week of Daniel, POST believer's tribulation on day 1335 of the 70th Week of Daniel. This is not date setting since we cannot know when the 70th Week actually begins until the daily sacrifices are abated. Imagine every dumpster booby trapped or having a camera pointed at it in a time when no one can buy or sell without the mark of the beast. Read that: true Christian numbers will be extremely small by mid 70th Week of Daniel. And they will be so deep in hiding that their sudden disappearance will go unnoticed by the world. IMHO, since the evil one starts to renege on his covenant with the Jews on day 1230 (105 days before the actual rapture) he will believe they are already exterminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted April 11, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2016 I have a question, why is everything you oppose, is about a conspiracy ? I have never said that. It's just that when it's a CT I have to tell it like it is. If you have info, post it and prove me wrong and I will apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 11, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2016 17 hours ago, JohnD said: The rapture takes place PRE Great Tribulation, MID 70th Week of Daniel, POST believer's tribulation on day 1335 of the 70th Week of Daniel. This is not date setting since we cannot know when the 70th Week actually begins until the daily sacrifices are abated. Imagine every dumpster booby trapped or having a camera pointed at it in a time when no one can buy or sell without the mark of the beast. Read that: true Christian numbers will be extremely small by mid 70th Week of Daniel. And they will be so deep in hiding that their sudden disappearance will go unnoticed by the world. IMHO, since the evil one starts to renege on his covenant with the Jews on day 1230 (105 days before the actual rapture) he will believe they are already exterminated. John, i find a lot of evidence to support the position that the believer will enter the great tribulation and the rapture will occur shortly after the abomination of desolation, which is right in the middle of Daniels 70th week. Having said this, I will also add, I do not believe God's wrath begins until the 7th seal is opened. Thus, I would put the 7th seal after the abomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted April 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2016 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled (Revelation 6:9-11) . And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years (Revelation 20:4) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted April 12, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ezra said: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled (Revelation 6:9-11) . And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years (Revelation 20:4) where is the rapture before or after the fifth seal is opened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted April 12, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 907 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,650 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,833 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2016 4 hours ago, Spock said: John, i find a lot of evidence to support the position that the believer will enter the great tribulation and the rapture will occur shortly after the abomination of desolation, which is right in the middle of Daniels 70th week. Having said this, I will also add, I do not believe God's wrath begins until the 7th seal is opened. Thus, I would put the 7th seal after the abomination. I believe we are in agreement. The key is: Daniel 12:11–12 (AV) 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. The Great Tribulation (God's Wrath) begins in the latter half of the 70th Week of Daniel, after the rapture. His wrath as far as Christians are concerned was poured out on Christ Jesus on the cross. The Believer's Tribulation in the first half of the 70th Week of Daniel is when the devil and the world pour out their wrath on the Church / God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted April 12, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, JohnD said: I believe we are in agreement. The key is: Daniel 12:11–12 (AV) 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. The Great Tribulation (God's Wrath) begins in the latter half of the 70th Week of Daniel, after the rapture. His wrath as far as Christians are concerned was poured out on Christ Jesus on the cross. The Believer's Tribulation in the first half of the 70th Week of Daniel is when the devil and the world pour out their wrath on the Church / God. okay here is my question ?, are we all saying that the great tribulation, is Gods wrath ? or is it two separate events tribulation and then the wrath ? how do we confirm this ,? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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