The Great Image.

[Kan]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Kan,

It`s amazing how we can see so different, ay bro. Now you said -

 

 

The European Union is NOT the same as the Roman Empire, not even the Europe part. Germany was not in it & is a large part of the EU today. Perhaps we can call it the Revived 3rd Reich.

Anyway, jokes aside, how are they `considered to be of the same era,` as you said? 

As to the Bible mentioning things, well we need to look at all God`s word in relation to the `feet & toes,` for God`s interpretation.

 

Marilyn.

 

Europe will last until Jesus destroys the earth, "in the days of these kings." But we note that when speaking about the Lord's Kingdom, it says "in the days of these kings" not in the days of this kingdom, showing that the unity which the Papacy affected is no longer there in the end, and the European nations are independent, incompatible and different, just as the iron does not mix with the clay. We can expect that condition to last until the end.

I have re read about the feet and toes, and there is one sentence which indicates that the toes had more of a mix of clay and iron than the feet.

Verse 42. "And as the toes of the feet...were part of iron, and part of clay..." So I think you have a point about the toes being different than the feet.

But this agrees with the fall of the Papacy (Babylon) and the remaining independent kingdoms.

BTW I don't believe in the RRE either.

[Last Daze]

13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

I am going to post a thread about the Great beasts of Daniel 7, so will hold our discussion till then.

Marilyn.

Oh, I can stay in Daniel 2 to demonstrate it as well.  Daniel 7 just seemed more straightforward.

• After you there will arise another kingdom inferior to you, then another third kingdom of bronze, which will rule over all the earth.  Daniel 2:39
• In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.  Daniel 2:44

I guess the question is,  "How does the kingdom of God crush and put an end to the kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and the feet of iron and clay?"  The explanation of that verse that I've heard is that "those kings" is a reference to the 10 kings.  However, there is no reference to the toes being kings.  "Those kings" must refer to already referenced kings.  Also, three of the 10 are uprooted by the little horn so their "days" are done before the return of Christ.  The below verse also rules out "those kings" being the 10 toes.  You have to look beyond the natural.

Aren't the natural kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome gone?  Sure, we still have the geography and some remnants, but the kingdoms are gone.  Without understanding the spiritual nature of those kingdoms, namely their fallen angel princes, it's impossible to make sense of Daniel 2:44.  Remember that the kingdom of Satan will be destroyed at the return of Christ.  Mystery Babylon will be cast down.

• Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.  Daniel 2:35

Note that there is no mention of "iron and clay" separate from the iron.  Also note that they are all crushed at the same time.  This is only possible in a spiritual sense.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Marilyn C and Kan and Greetings Last Daze,

18 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

As to the Bible mentioning things, well we need to look at all God`s word in relation to the `feet & toes,` for God`s interpretation.

We are patiently waiting to hear your explanation of the feet and toes, especially if it is simple and clear, and if it is backed up or explained by Scripture as you claim.

14 hours ago, Kan said:

Europe will last until Jesus destroys the earth, "in the days of these kings."

 

I do not agree that the earth is to be destroyed. Daniel 2:35,44 speak of the establishment of the Kingdom of God on the earth and this is reinforced by such Scriptures as Isaiah 2:14, Zechariah 14, Acts 3:19-21 and many others.

 

10 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Aren't the natural kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome gone?  Sure, we still have the geography and some remnants, but the kingdoms are gone. 

 

This raises an interesting aspect. It shows that the Image represents the successive kingdoms of men and although the centre of power, that is the military and political shifts, it is essentially the same, the seed of the serpent in political manifestation, the rule of those opposed to the seed of the woman, the kingdom of God, embodied in Christ. There has been principally various phases in relation to the Holy Land, Assyria-Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. Each of these have taken up the mantle in turn, but elements of each have continued and been incorporated in the following kingdoms. The impact of the stone is upon the feet, but at that time all the others will be terminated and replaced by the Kingdom of God upon the earth.

 

Kind regards Trevor

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Kan said:

Europe will last until Jesus destroys the earth, "in the days of these kings." But we note that when speaking about the Lord's Kingdom, it says "in the days of these kings" not in the days of this kingdom, showing that the unity which the Papacy affected is no longer there in the end, and the European nations are independent, incompatible and different, just as the iron does not mix with the clay. We can expect that condition to last until the end.

I have re read about the feet and toes, and there is one sentence which indicates that the toes had more of a mix of clay and iron than the feet.

Verse 42. "And as the toes of the feet...were part of iron, and part of clay..." So I think you have a point about the toes being different than the feet.

But this agrees with the fall of the Papacy (Babylon) and the remaining independent kingdoms.

BTW I don't believe in the RRE either.

Hi Kan,

Glad you don`t believe that the `feet & toes` are the RRE. I will post my thoughts soon. I`m looking at the `whole of the Great Image` getting struck. Had some fresh understanding I believe. See what you think. I will post it under Last Daze.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Marilyn C and Kan and Greetings Last Daze,

We are patiently waiting to hear your explanation of the feet and toes, especially if it is simple and clear, and if it is backed up or explained by Scripture as you claim.

 

I do not agree that the earth is to be destroyed. Daniel 2:35,44 speak of the establishment of the Kingdom of God on the earth and this is reinforced by such Scriptures as Isaiah 2:14, Zechariah 14, Acts 3:19-21 and many others.

 

 

This raises an interesting aspect. It shows that the Image represents the successive kingdoms of men and although the centre of power, that is the military and political shifts, it is essentially the same, the seed of the serpent in political manifestation, the rule of those opposed to the seed of the woman, the kingdom of God, embodied in Christ. There has been principally various phases in relation to the Holy Land, Assyria-Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. Each of these have taken up the mantle in turn, but elements of each have continued and been incorporated in the following kingdoms. The impact of the stone is upon the feet, but at that time all the others will be terminated and replaced by the Kingdom of God upon the earth.

 

Kind regards Trevor

Hi TrevorL,

Yes I will certainly get to my thoughts on the `feet & toes,`  soon, but am looking at the `whole Image` getting struck. Always wondered on that.

See what I post to Last Daze.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Oh, I can stay in Daniel 2 to demonstrate it as well.  Daniel 7 just seemed more straightforward.

• After you there will arise another kingdom inferior to you, then another third kingdom of bronze, which will rule over all the earth.  Daniel 2:39
• In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.  Daniel 2:44

I guess the question is,  "How does the kingdom of God crush and put an end to the kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and the feet of iron and clay?"  The explanation of that verse that I've heard is that "those kings" is a reference to the 10 kings.  However, there is no reference to the toes being kings.  "Those kings" must refer to already referenced kings.  Also, three of the 10 are uprooted by the little horn so their "days" are done before the return of Christ.  The below verse also rules out "those kings" being the 10 toes.  You have to look beyond the natural.

Aren't the natural kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome gone?  Sure, we still have the geography and some remnants, but the kingdoms are gone.  Without understanding the spiritual nature of those kingdoms, namely their fallen angel princes, it's impossible to make sense of Daniel 2:44.  Remember that the kingdom of Satan will be destroyed at the return of Christ.  Mystery Babylon will be cast down.

• Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.  Daniel 2:35

Note that there is no mention of "iron and clay" separate from the iron.  Also note that they are all crushed at the same time.  This is only possible in a spiritual sense.

Hi Last Daze,

Yes that part about the whole image getting struck always puzzled me. I tended to think – well it is just symbolic, which it is, but what is it symbolic of. I thought this morning & asked the Lord. These thoughts came to mind & see what you & the other fellas (Kan & Trevor) think.

I was ready to move on to Daniel 7 but it seems to me that the Lord desires to bring some things to our attention.

The Great Image is God`s overview of the `Times of the Gentiles.

   `And Jerusalem will be trampled down until the Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.` (Luke 21: 24)

1. God gave the Gentiles authority to rule for a certain time.

`You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength & glory.` (Dan. 2: 17)

Until ` the Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.` (Luke 21: 24)

 

2. The Gentiles lord it over others.  `You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them….`(Matt. 20: 25)

 

3. Spirit powers influence how they rule. `We know that the whole world lies in the sway of the wicked one.` (1 John 5: 19)

 

So we see that the Great Image is representative of the Times of the Gentiles, from Babylon to the last Gentile power. God dealt with each successive kingdom in turn – Babylon, (`You have been weighed in the balances & found wanting, …Your kingdom has been given to…`(Dan. 5: 27 & 28) & all the other kingdoms have come & gone. So what we are seeing when Christ returns & deals with the Gentile rulers is the actual demise of the whole Gentile Rulership. The times of the Gentiles is fulfilled, finished & its authority, power & demonic influence is taken away.

 

1. Christ takes away the Gentile authority.

`And the beast was captured, & with him the false prophet …….cast alive into the fire of burning…`(Rev. 19: 20)  

 

2. Christ rules over the Gentiles with a `rod of iron.`   ` He shall rule them with a rod of iron;..` (Rev. 2: 27)

 

3. No spirit powers influencing them.  `He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the devil & Satan, & bound him for a thousand years.` (Rev. 20: 2)

 

So the striking of the whole image, seems to me to be representative of the dealing of Gentile authority over a specific time, (times of the Gentiles) & the Gentiles lording it over others & the demonic influence over them. The body parts of the image show the individual Gentile World Rulers, however the Great Image, of a man, shows man`s (Gentile) rulership before God sets up His rulership through Christ.

Christ takes away the whole of Gentile rulership (not just the last ruler) that was given by God, as the time of their fulfillment had come.

 

Is that clear? Hope so. Marilyn.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Marilyn C,

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Christ takes away the whole of Gentile rulership (not just the last ruler) that was given by God, as the time of their fulfillment had come.

Is that clear? Hope so. Marilyn.

Yes. When this time arrives then:

Revelation 11:15 (KJV): And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Kind regards Trevor

Edited April 28, 2016 by TrevorL

[Marilyn C]

Hi TrevorL,

Amen bro, amen.

Marilyn.

[Kan]

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

Yes that part about the whole image getting struck always puzzled me. I tended to think – well it is just symbolic, which it is, but what is it symbolic of. I thought this morning & asked the Lord. These thoughts came to mind & see what you & the other fellas (Kan & Trevor) think.

I was ready to move on to Daniel 7 but it seems to me that the Lord desires to bring some things to our attention.

The Great Image is God`s overview of the `Times of the Gentiles.

   `And Jerusalem will be trampled down until the Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.` (Luke 21: 24)

1. God gave the Gentiles authority to rule for a certain time.

`You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength & glory.` (Dan. 2: 17)

Until ` the Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.` (Luke 21: 24)

 

2. The Gentiles lord it over others.  `You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them….`(Matt. 20: 25)

 

3. Spirit powers influence how they rule. `We know that the whole world lies in the sway of the wicked one.` (1 John 5: 19)

 

So we see that the Great Image is representative of the Times of the Gentiles, from Babylon to the last Gentile power. God dealt with each successive kingdom in turn – Babylon, (`You have been weighed in the balances & found wanting, …Your kingdom has been given to…`(Dan. 5: 27 & 28) & all the other kingdoms have come & gone. So what we are seeing when Christ returns & deals with the Gentile rulers is the actual demise of the whole Gentile Rulership. The times of the Gentiles is fulfilled, finished & its authority, power & demonic influence is taken away.

 

1. Christ takes away the Gentile authority.

`And the beast was captured, & with him the false prophet …….cast alive into the fire of burning…`(Rev. 19: 20)  

 

2. Christ rules over the Gentiles with a `rod of iron.`   ` He shall rule them with a rod of iron;..` (Rev. 2: 27)

 

3. No spirit powers influencing them.  `He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the devil & Satan, & bound him for a thousand years.` (Rev. 20: 2)

 

So the striking of the whole image, seems to me to be representative of the dealing of Gentile authority over a specific time, (times of the Gentiles) & the Gentiles lording it over others & the demonic influence over them. The body parts of the image show the individual Gentile World Rulers, however the Great Image, of a man, shows man`s (Gentile) rulership before God sets up His rulership through Christ.

Christ takes away the whole of Gentile rulership (not just the last ruler) that was given by God, as the time of their fulfillment had come.

 

Is that clear? Hope so. Marilyn.

That's pretty clear, I thought that the "times of the Gentiles" began with the end of the times for the Jews when Israel came to the end of the 490 years, just after Jesus died.

We hear of the disciples/apostles namely Paul commissioned to take the gospel to the Gentiles. Peter was challenged with the same in a dream.

[Last Daze]

12 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Hi Trevor

Each of these have taken up the mantle in turn, but elements of each have continued and been incorporated in the following kingdoms. The impact of the stone is upon the feet, but at that time all the others will be terminated and replaced by the Kingdom of God upon the earth.

 

When I read these verses:

• You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them.  Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors.  Daniel 2:34-35a
• In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.  Inasmuch as you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future; so the dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.  Daniel 2:44-45

I get the sense that what is being referred to is more than elements of each kingdom being incorporated into successive kingdoms.  It happens "in the days of those kings".